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(COMPLETE) Devil In The Waters, Chapter 5, Remote Control

🕑 Added 2019-12-07 22:00:57 +0000 UTC

Comments

KT Morrison

got it, thanks!

Glaucon

One thing I just noticed - one of the texts from Devin "You sure did" is not italicized like the others.

TF

I was tempted to go into the weeds, lol, but agree, not much gained. It might be interesting/fun to do a poll on how KT's characters rate strength-wise...male and female. The ambiguity of the terms strength and weakness might be more fully revealed.

Glaucon

That’s interesting to me, because I would say there are a lot of people that would disagree and say that strength is not necessarily tied to morality at all – but to my mind that just goes to show how much it can mean different things to different people! I’ll spare everyone my undergrad thesis lol but I do think language is inherently flawed. As you note, I don’t know how much we gain from going TOO into the weeds on this.

TF

I take your point but we have to be careful not to go too far or we get into an Alice in Wonderland situation as when Humpty Dumpty says, “When I use a word, it means what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less”. Emotional attachment, for example, could be a real weakness or a strength. Thus, to my mind there is a reality associated with emotional attachment independently of how it is seen by an observer. Again, context is important. Emotional attachment that leads, for example, to aiding or supporting intrinsically evil behavior is a weakness no matter how anyone happens to characterize it. Probably making too much of this but….

Glaucon

Those are some great points - personally, I would go even further though. The very definitions of strength and weakness will change from person to person. Some people consider emotional attachments or sentimentality (or even showing emotion) a weakness. Other people would consider a willingness to take on a burden for your loved ones a strength, or that it takes strength to allow yourself to be emotionally vulnerable. I truly don't think we can consider human nature in the binary of strong or weak, good or bad, tempting as it might be to think that way. People are complicated, and they can have dramatically different values and perspectives.

TF

Glaucon, You bring up so many interesting points. Like any modifying word, strong and weak are nebulous terms…same with hot and cold…does the term ‘hot’ apply to temperature, sex appeal, weather, car…? On the other hand, if one says a person is ‘strong’ it gives one a general sense of character (or physicality) without precisely defining in what ways. Also it doesn’t eliminate the presence of weaknesses but implies these are less dominant. Language is fascinating…so much meaning of a word relies on the context in which it is used. That's why I really like KT's choice of words that makes her writing so vivid.

Glaucon

I think it's notable that KT did talk about specifically setting out to write a "strong" hotwife male protag in Happy Endings, and you could say something similar about Going a Little Too Far. Having said that, I honestly don't think it's particularly helpful to think of everyone in terms of "strong" or "weak," as I explain below I think those terms are too simple to really capture human character. “Strong” is just too vague a concept that means whatever people want it to mean. When we say strong or weak in this context discussing characters, we’re really using them as placeholders for more specific attributes or flaws, like insecurity, pride, confidence, willpower, etc. Also divorce is decidedly unsexy lol so I doubt it would ever be made much of a focus in any KT story. And anyway there's way more possibility in this high humiliation story for Josh to have to stay married and undergo the indignity of knowing exactly how his wife's stepping out on him.

Glaucon

Something I think we should note - when we talk about “strong” or “weak,” we mean a thousand different things, intelligence, power, status, self-possession, moral fibre, self-sacrifice, you even have people whose ideas of “strong” will be contradictory to another persons. Somebody might think John is “weak” for letting himself become complacent. I actually think strong and weak are vast oversimplifications and not particularly helpful in talking about people/characters overall. (I write my responses in a word document and copy-paste).

Donkatsu

G,R,J, yep, I get all that and your points are excellent. OTOH, John the snowplow driver is certainly not weak, just overworked and out of shape, and lazy in the bedroom. Hotwives come in different flavours, I imagine, and at some point the husband/bf may grow a little more spine and do some jiu jitsu on the bull and his wife. As to where Josh and Kimmy are headed, it is not into Jordan's office (they probably cannot afford you in any event🤓). Josh will wallow in his humiliation, shame, and uncertainty/terror. Then something else will happen. Who knows, only KT. (BTW, how do you put in paragraph breaks? When I hit return the post publishes.)

Chinookfan72

RCH divorce is a possibility, but so is Josh’s acceptance of a hotwife relationship with Kimmy only KT knows where this one is going to end up.. Donkatsu, it’s hard to write the male protagonist of a hotwife story as always strong... they almost always have to do something weak to either get them in the position they are in or to maintain the position or else the stories tend to be short (like KT’s story released today). A cheating wife story like this has potential, as the husband can remain in the dark until the reveal. In this story’s case though that really isn’t possible because Josh is constantly being confronted by Devin about the possibility, and Kimmy’s behavior is doing a poor job of reassuring Josh that nothing is happening. As for the discussion of Ben from Chelsea hates libby, sure he is somewhat successful at work, but to me he is one of the two weakest male protagonist’s in the KT universe ( the other being Max, from the Maggie series). Not because he hooked up with Chelsea, but because his way out of it was to have someone else seduce his wife. To me that shows a lack of care for your spouse’s personal well being and is about as weak of a move, imo, that a person can make.

RCH

Yes, a chance with the cool girl can't blame Ben too much for his weakness. But what's with Kimmy? Counselor are we heading for divorce court with Josh and Kimmy?

Glaucon

It's true, there's circumstantial evidence both ways! For all we know, Kimmy and Devin just made out or something. Lol I hope the uncertainty is maintained for a while! It's makes for excellent tension. And thinking of it in terms of a book, we're really only a handful of chapters in.

Glaucon

lol get this - I'm a divorce attorney. Anyway, I think I'm just interested in human behaviour and I get to see a lot of it. To your other point, I'd say that people aren't so binary as all that, either strong or weak - someone can become successful and confident but find it hard not to think of themselves in terms of HS when put in the presence of those people they associate with high school. Think of Ben in Chelsea Hates Libby, successful guy done well for himself, but the second Chelsea walks in he's that awkward kid in HS and holy shit! that's the coolest girl in school!

Donkatsu

Glaucon, good points and accepted. What about the other side - the HS nerd who blooms late, mans up and succeeds in life, including romantically? How does he interact with the HS bully? For a while I thought Ben might be an example of that but he certainly failed that test. Harrison has a chance, but we might all be dead before he has his transformation (ok, I will only speak for myself - I might be dead before that happens. A bit OT - you seem to be very interested in shrinks types issues. Is that your business or just a hobby?

Glaucon

it's a vulnerable time in people's lives, they form memories before they build up an outer shell - interacting with people from that time can emotionally regress you back to those points so it's a useful tool in making the grown male protagonists, now better established and more confident, feel weaker and less confident in themselves.

Donkatsu

KT, doesn't it always go back to high school? Kimmy and Josh, Libby and Ben, Jamie and John, Taylor and Harrison (and Colt, et al).

RCH

There is a couple of lines from the last chapter that tell us something happened; "soon everyone would know what Kimmy and Devin had got up to at the party" Again something to be ashamed of but not specific. And this: "Thinking of his hands, how large they were, how masculine. Thought of how despite their size and strength they had remarkable well-groomed grace." I'm still holding out for no intercourse Kimmy is so focused on Devin's hands! No fantasy of his massive volume only his hands and masculine face. Kimmy is wanting to open up to Josh about what happen but is unsure. Oh the sweet agony of this story!

Chinookfan72

true, there are multiple ways KT could take the story I was just laying out the scenario that I’ve come across in other books as TF couldn’t recall a story like this. that being said for now Josh’s approval doesn’t matter, and for the act of Kimmy and Devin hooking up it never will. However Josh is all ready accepting the Kimmy Devin relationship implicitly. If he was against it completely Josh wouldn’t have backed down in this fight. Also, as this is an erotic story, I’d assume Kimmy and Devin are going to continue to hook up and Devin is going to keep telling Josh when they do... so unless you want the story to be more than just the last three chapters repeated over and over again, Josh is going to have to accept that Kimmy and Devin are hooking up... Wether he does this happily (because he gets off on it) or unhappily (doesn’t want a divorce, but realizes he can’t stop Kimmy from seeing Devin so he resigns himself to the situation) is up to KT and will determine where the story ultimately goes. Either way it’s going to be a fun journey, and a long one I hope.

RCH

DnD did you refer to me as Red because of the RCH? Because that happens to be my real initials but they also reference Red C#^$ Hair too. I'm not offended it has always been a humorous fact of life for me. Richard C.H. :) Just don't call me Dick!

RCH

Interesting points! We'll have to see what is up.

Tim ziegler

She seem’s to be a strong woman if she really didn’t want to hurt Josh by cheating she wouldn’t.But deep down maybe she wants to try Devin on for “size” thinking she can control it.But the wrongness and the newness overwhelm her!

Glaucon

Also this chapter was extremely hot in the imagined fantasies of the couple (in stark contrast to their interactions). The ideas that Josh conjures - of Kimmy sinking to her knees for Devin, eyes widening in shock on seeing his size, transitioning into worship – those were some powerful images. Meanwhile, our limited insight into Kimmy has her getting off to the image (memory?) of passively submitting herself to Devin. these are some intense glimpses of foreshadowing. Can’t wait for more!

Glaucon

The taboo and wrongness of it all, for Kimmy maybe, is more a source of heat than an obstacle. Much like Josh, she doesn't want her body to be responding the way that it is, but can't stop it. In a sense this is her body betraying her mind. She's hated Devin, but that anger is a form of passion and can be more complex. She dislikes his arrogance and is infuriated by his behaviour, but that doesn't mean she isn't also physically attracted to his confidence and appearance/physical attributes. Both feelings aren't mutually exclusive. It's the conflict that makes it interesting.

RCH

A good point I didn't catch he works for AJ Swanson part, sorry! Still I don't see the why with Kimmy? Yet! I think the why and the what happened that started this all will be the great revel in this story. A larger volume is not enough to get a faithful wife to open up to a man she despises. It would be very disappointing if Kimmy was that shallow of a character. How could Kimmy even entertain any form of intimate contact with Devin. She not impressed by his fancy cars or display of success. KT is good at character creation. I think there will be something unique in the Kimmy/Devin relationship that caused her to submit on some level at the reunion.

Glaucon

He wouldn't hire Josh, he would hire the company Josh works for (AJ Swanson), which I assume Josh would have no say in. What's he gonna do, quit? (anyway, just a hypothetical)

DavidnDaria

And Vellum is only available for Mac's. :)

RCH

Glaucon, (in my not so humble opinion) I don't think it would be plausible that Josh would do business with Devin under any circumstances. There is no way there is any trust and any business relationship is built on a certain amount of trust going in. Josh would be have to be very greedy and stupid to have any business relationship with Devin. If he gets drawn into a deal with Devin he deserves to lose everything for being foolish! I've been in business and walked away from deals before because I just didn't trust the other party. Josh excitement when he thinks of Devlin being with Kimmy is partly because of male competition! A call to arm boys lets get in there and take that EGG!!! It's confusing as hell because our baser instincts don't jive with our emotional and intellectual views. What makes this so difficult we still aren't sure what happened. What are the circumstances that put Kimmy in a position the have Devlin have control over her? Whether he is been in Kimmy or not is less important than how did they get to the point that something even happened? If Kimmy was drunk or high that would be easy answer. Just horniness or curiosity doesn't explain her actions what ever it was. There is such a information gap at this time.

Glaucon

i really do hope everything gets drawn out as much as possible - this series is gold!

Glaucon

I would obviously dearly love to see this series go on for quite a while, across multiple books. It’s seems to me pretty clear that the story will carry on a bit further with insecurity and unsurety in Josh as he works out what exactly has happened/is happening, meanwhile Kimmy falls further and further under Devin’s thrall. There’s been some discussion of how things will continue after Josh knows for sure. Honestly I think we’ll have a good chunk of time before that. Maybe even a couple books? I can dream lol. Here’s another hypothetical pitch for directions this could take: In the shorter term I could see Stone eventually getting Kimmy to send him pics, having Kimmy dress sexier/sluttier for him (easy things to taunt Josh with). Still a ways from that I think, Devin is still working first on Kimmy’s base reluctance, building a base dynamic of dominance first Could Stone’s company hire Josh's marketing research firm, to gain leverage and further power over Josh, while also further insinuating himself in the life of the Waters? Not to mention how it further humiliates Josh, which Devin would see as a bonus. Devin could pile work on him so he knows Kimmy’s home alone, send Josh taunting messages (and pics/videos?) while Josh is stuck in the office. Could also play into why Josh might not confront Kimmy, as discussed earlier – first of all Josh doesn’t confront because he’s afraid Kimmy will choose Devin, and maybe Devin threatens Josh with sinking the deal in a way that puts the blame on Josh. So as long as he’s a good boy, he has a wife and job, but if he fucks up he’ll lose both (not saying that’s what would happen, that’s just Devin’s threat, and Devin is in Josh’s head enough for Josh to take it seriously).

Glaucon

I'm not certain how necessary it is that Josh become increasingly turned on by the cheating and it becoming a positive focus for him. It's possible, but the predominant focus so far has been on how Josh's approval and consent doesn't matter. He fights the flashes of heat that he feels thinking about how the insurmountable and impossible-feeling gulf in size between himself and Devin produces, in his mind, dramatically different reactions in Kimmy. Those are hot thoughts. And he hates those thoughts.

TF

Thanks for putting me on the right track Jordan. I guess I was unconsciously avoiding that possibility as it is a less attractive scenario to me. But, as you say, KT may well give it a different twist in the end.

Chinookfan72

You are correct Josh isn’t a hotwife husband, but this isn’t a hotwife story. This is a cheating wife story... I have read some short stories etc. that play on erectile disfunction... it’s like Josh first hates that Devin could be fucking his wife, but then the idea starts to turn him on... When I read the ED stuff in this chapter it reenforced that Josh does have a desire for his wife sleep with other men somewhere in his subconscious but his conscious self has suppressed those feelings to where Josh’s no longer believe’s he’s had them. One could also see that as proof he has never had those thoughts until now... This is the beauty of how this story is written there is something for everyone in every scene. If KT is consistent with other stories that I’ve read of this ilk. Josh’s ED will continue such that the only way he will become aroused is if he is picturing Devin and Kimmy going at it in some form or fashion. Ultimately It will continue to a point where Josh admits to himself he does have the fantasy of his wife sleeping with someone else. At that point he’ll stop giving Kimmy a hard time about it, but won’t let Kimmy he’s okay with it. Additionally, Josh will start to enjoy the humiliation and use that as additional fuel to his cuck furnace. Thus Kimmy continues cheating on Josh and the story becomes about three things 1) the sex between Kimmy and Devin, 2) Kimmy’s internal conflict on how she reconciles cheating on her husband and 3) Josh’s continued transformation into getting off on someone sleeping with his wife and being humiliated by that person. Or KT could take the story in the complete opposite direction from the prior stories that I’ve read that have started this way... whatever KT decides to do I’ll be along for journey.

TF

Josh is not the usual ‘hot wife husband’. He’s clearly freaked out by Devin’s aggression and by the hints (he even tries somewhat unsuccessfully to rationalize the calling card in the drawer) of a Kimmy betrayal of his love with a mutually hated throwback of secondary school. The arousal he feels at thoughts of Kimmy with Devin seems (to me) to be much more angst inducing than in the normal (whatever that is) hot wife scenario. And I don’t recall any hot wife book where the husband had erectile dysfunction, quite the opposite (no doubt someone will correct me, ha). So I’m more or less (well totally) at a loss as to what is coming down the pike next.

DavidnDaria

I hear you, Red. The only thing we have to go by is Devin and Kimmy's actions--the bathroom is becoming her go to room. So, if Kimmy and Devin haven't done the deed, "...strange things are afoot at the Circle K..."

Glaucon

Two writing programs! You'd think there'd be a more streamlined option for these things...

KT Morrison

Oh, that's a good one.

KT Morrison

I read 'em! Ha ha, and I appreciate the heads up on typos and such, for sure. I just need a better system for fixing them—sometimes I fix the Vellum file, sometimes the Patreon post, sometimes the Scrivener file. This digest post was taken from the Scrivener document and some of the changes I made didn't show up. You think I'd be better at this by now...

Glaucon

The way Kimmy seems to think about this latest transgression as makings things worse than what happened on the first night makes me wonder about just how far that first night really went, but we’ll find out eventually. Or maybe it’s just the fact that transgressing a second time has transformed a one-time slip to an ongoing issue. Kimmy doesn’t really make a sound when she’s with Josh – but she struggles to keep herself quiet when she’s alone and just thinking about Devin – there’s a running motif of Kimmy making noise here, foreshadowing Devin (four times or so Josh’s size by volume 😉) making her a screamer. This tension, emotional distance, and possibly even Josh’s insecurity causing erectile difficulties are 100% intended/hoped for consequences that Devin sought by saying what he said in the tent that first night, and following up now via text. It’s interesting to me how little time we’ve actually spent with Devin so far – really just that first scene, and even that was one-sided. Things will really start to turn up once we actually get to see Devin and Kimmy interact. I hope we get the whole spectrum from them, antagonistic beginning to more complicated. The “bu itself” typo I mentioned in the last post was changed, but the dialogue things I noticed weren’t… maybe I’m misreading them? Or maybe KT just doesn’t read these lol :P.

Tim ziegler

“Sticking his head in sand won’t solve his problems he needs to get Kimmy to fess,letting a ass like Devin in the chicken coop is like let the fox in.He’ll do a lot of damage before you get him out!

RCH

DnD, I'm not so sure that Devin has gained entry to Kimmy. I don't think that Josh gave Devin the green light to screw Kimmy ether. Look this is a new thing that is getting into Josh's head after the fact. There is no indication that this was an ongoing fantasy of either one or both of the Waters. If this would have been a prior fantasy of Josh's he would be more into it and press Kimmy to fess up to what happened. We also have no prior indication that Kimmy would want or desire extramarital contact with Devin she hates him! No prior fantasies on her part or Josh's as to any hotwife cheating talk. There has to be something that sparked the incident at the reunion. Girl talk with a friend or acquaintance from HS regarding Devin? Maybe he forced himself on her in someway? What ever it is Kimmy feels guilty. Devin somehow has put himself in a position of power over Kimmy and getting into Josh's head too. Devin is capable of almost anything to get at Josh. KT is weaving more than baskets here! She is so devious!

DavidnDaria

Josh is just a normal guy faced with a completely abnormal situation. Devin is an asshole, plain and simple. That he's had Kimmy is almost certain. I wonder what his wife will think when she learns (if she doesn't know already) that Devin is rubbing her husband's nose in the goings on? I wonder if Josh actually told Devin that he wanted his wife to screw around. Seems to me if Kimmy was in on it, it would have played out by now. So, Kimmy doesn't know. That makes it possible that Josh didn't say anything of the sort. I suppose re-reading the first chapter would be a good thing, because if Devin said he told Kimmy he had permission from Josh, that would be the proverbial straw--especially if he used it to gain entry. Edit: Just re-read... nope nothing was said.

TF

Seems to me Josh is a much too sensitive person to cope being dropped into the situation he finds himself. He’s well on his way to a full psychosis…what is reality anyway Josh? Tormented by Devin’s cruel “Kimmy is too much woman for him”, his mind unable to cope with his wife’s unusual feisty sexiness, he now veers from impotence to premature ejaculation…behavior that will push him further down the rabbit hole. This is certainly a thriller cut from a different cloth than the usual. Compliments to KT on pulling me down the rabbit hole with him…can I wait another week?

RCH

The real Devil is in the writer! This is so sweetly agonizing. We have confirmation that something of a sexual nature happened between Devin and Kimmy but KT teasing out the full truth. Oh the sweet pain of it! So we're looking at some form of blackmail it seems.

RCH

What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive! Kimmy...

DavidnDaria

And the hits just keep coming... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTEqZURh4o

Chinookfan72

Agreed it would be so easy for KT to turn this into a hotwife story, and I applauded the effort to resist. Can’t wait for more.

JamesIsAsleep

Lovely, and excruciating slow burn. I love how many things have been accomplished in one day other than Devin showing up, laundry, Netflix binging (never watched that show btw), nails, naps, but no I dont recall a Devin coming by. Devin? Who's that? I don't know a Devin ... Btw I joke about her lies as if they aren't good, but I love this little liar Kimmy and how good she tries to be at it, and I love her, honest but yet still, guilt fucks. I really enjoy Josh's struggles too. This is a great and unique story in the KT universe.


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