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DITW 11-10: (Untitled for now)

🕑 Added 2023-08-16 00:00:03 +0000 UTC

Comments

L.

Most telling? “ "You're not going to leave me for him?" It was a boyish, comical thing to say, something to lighten the mood even. But he did want to know her answer. He wished he had a maturer way of asking. Kimmy reached to take his hand and he offered it. She wove her fingers through his and he lowered himself to lay at her side.” Notice that she didn’t say “No, I’m not going to leave you, Josh.”

L.

Kimmy is perfectly evil and sadistic.

Andrew Mellein

From the recent chapters it appears that Kimmy is trying to push Josh into a voyeur lifestyle where he watches her have sex with Devlin. The problem with that unlike Kt's other stories with the bulls and married couples is that Josh cant stand Devlin as he pretty much terrorized him as a child. I just cant see how all this is going to work out! If this is a horror story as KT sort of says it is than everyone most likely will accept their fate as it it now: with Josh as a voyeur and raising Devlin's child, Kimmy having her cake and eating it, and Devlin dominating Kimmy in bed. However, I don't think this is the ending KT has for us as I think all three characters including Josh will have sad endings probably all single and alone and this will not end in a HEA. Thus, making it the horror story KT was alluding to. But we will see in the next chapters and final two books including this one!

L_S87

Yeah, for this to have ended "well", or at least not horrible, multiple parties needed to make different decisions in the first few books. At this point, neither Kimmy nor Josh have any good choices, just ones that are less awful than others. And given Kimmy has never shown a propensity for telling the truth or doing the right thing, you're basically left with a gamut of pathways that all lead to hell. The only question is who burns hotter than the others when the piper has to be paid. I feel like there was a point where if Kimmy told the truth, all of it, Josh and her could have made a solid partnership and wriggled through this with only a few scrapes and bruises. The path Kimmy has chosen will never allow that at this point. All roads lead to one of the nine hells, no saving throws allowed.

CSH

Some will just get there sooner than others.

KT Morrison

Not too harsh at all—everything you say is rational, ha ha. You're so right about the ending, too. There is no perfect way to end this story. Nothing is going to be right. I have great ideas for the ending, I just have to convince the characters to go along with me.

Tracey52

They are all going to burn in hell metaphorically I think.

CSH

Epiphanal is indeed a word though the spell checkers may not admit it, damn them! Odd how religious connotations keep appearing here. You have full on nailed your characterization with Kimmy. Josh might benefit from a little refining. His thought process in convincing himself that there is a role here where he can both indulge in his self-abasing addiction and still keep his self respect will need some elucidating. Or perhaps not. In part, Kimmy might be more successful in this transition because we don’t hear from her as much. Perhaps just show how that conflict in Josh manifests. Deliciously self destructive submissive requests from Evil Kimmy perhaps. Moments of stunned insight and occasional screaming fits of rebellion are to be expected of course. Followed no doubt by more self-destructive sex. For Josh, every episode is a step down the ladder into hell. But he need not be consciously aware of this. It’s best in fact that he is not and only occasionally looks around to notice how far down he has descended.

KT Morrison

This is a perfect representation of the dilemma. While these scenes may seem epiphanal, they still aren’t honest. I love how human they both are! High IQ rationalizations amuse me to no end. And I think I just made up the word epihanal.

L_S87

Glad I could help! I felt like I may have come across as too harsh and critical of how you wrote this, which isn't what I wanted. It was more meant to convey how much confusion welled up from reading this because its such a mixture of amazement and despair. It's like a sine wave of tumultuous emotion. One paragraph makes you smile, the next you're frowning and by the end of it you're pretty sure if Kimmy told you the floor was the ceiling, it would somehow make sense. I can see why you would struggle with this, because as we draw near to the end, choosing a path for the characters is fraught with hazard on balancing who you envision them to be mixed with readers expectations of how it "should" end when they've had 11 books worth of narrative to shape their likes and dislikes. I'm far from immune to that. I'm almost 100% positive at this point I'm going to hate how this ends. I still want to read it, though. Because it's just that good.

KT Morrison

I think this is the reaction I wanted from this chapter. This comprehension of yours feels good to me. Thank you so much for putting this into words for me, it helps frame how the writing is received.

KT Morrison

Yes, yes, this is all fantastic! And, fwiw, only the Frankenheimer version counts. But I do like the DZ one, and a Demme’s got to count for something.

CSH

She has described this as a horror story of sorts.

Andrew Mellein

I think KT's stories especially this one in general are more scary than anything Stephen King or Clive Barker ever wrote because they deal with genuine human emotions and feelings. Questions such as: How well do you know the love of your life? and Can you ever really know somebody? I find more scary than a ghoul lurking in the closet! I read her books due to the excitement and dread that take up each chapter and anticipate how each of her books will generally end for her very human characters. Some of her stories are like witnessing a car crash in a good way. Others are tragic especially when they deal with families with children such as Learning Lessons and Broken Blossoms. I think she is probably my favorite erotica author right now due to getting inside her characters heads and not making them feel like cardboard cutouts. I cant wait to see how Devil in the Dark will end and I am excited for the next chapter!

Mike Monroe

I agree till DITW...Maggie to me was the most vile Villainous character KT created...until Kimmy!!! She to me is the undisturbed champion now!!! She needs to suffer..Josh needs to grow a pair! Devlin needs a long walk off a short pier!!! All bets are off though...Who knows what the master craftsman has in store for them and us!!!

L_S87

Great point, Donkatsu. While Kimmy says she loves him, and she wants them to be together and she's not letting him go, there's a lot of variations to what that could mean. Anything from her trying to find a way to do right by Josh and their marriage, best as she can given the circumstances, to her keeping Josh as a plaything when she comes home after spending time with Devlin because she enjoys him more, other than the enjoyment she gets from reveling in rubbing Josh's nose in all the awful things she does with Devlin, which is peak dominant Kimmy. Who knows? Kimmy is so deceitful it could be either extreme or something in between. None of which accounts for what may happen if Josh actually gets the truth. Wild ride we're in for, no doubt.

Kat

This book is so dark, but I can’t wait for the new chapters. The character from KT’s books that I think is the worst is Maggie. There were times that I had to take a break while reading those books, because I was having such a visceral reaction to them. I agree that Kimmy needs to suffer far more than she has!

Donkatsu

Well summed up, Kat. This seems to be the growing consensus of the assembled multitudes. Therefore, it must also be wrong, since KT doesn't do predictable, does she. Maybe we are all being gaslit by our fearless leader. Or not. Kat, I agree with you and the others on Kimmy's changing nature and her manipulation of Josh. Despite the weight of learned literary analysis, I fear there is probably something else in the works

Kat

It’s hard sometimes to tell what’s real and what’s not, since it’s Kimmy talking to herself. Has this Kimmy always existed? I mean, in a space of a few months, she’s become the most vile wife in the world, and an incredible liar. She seems better suited in the dominant role, being a successful lawyer, companion of a rich, powerful bully, then she does as wife to Josh, making baskets in their spare room. When the book opens, she was still recovering from a miscarriage, and not in a good space. Life with Devlin seems far more appealing now, especially when she knows how much it excites Josh. Life with Josh will never be enough for her again. Maybe that’s what she means when she tells them she thinks they’re in trouble. Their marriage can’t be sustained like this.

CSH

Yeah that’s exactly right. She loves the role and the way being with Devlin made her feel and the way it let her play that role. You hit the nail on the head here.

L_S87

Yes. The intrigue here is that we just don't know. Kimmy is so deft at lying and manipulation that it's difficult to know what is reality and just her playing a role she enjoys. I can easily see her being attracted to Devlin's persona, but her statements also make it believable that the attraction is just as much the role he provides her. Without him she doesn't get to play strong, confident lawyer Kimmy with all that entails. She can love how it makes her feel to be on his arm, knowing everyone is watching, enjoy that respect and power, yet only see him as a tool to open doors to that role she loves. That pairs well with her statements to Josh about she plays a persona that she enjoys being outside the house, a ruthless hardass working for Devlin, while wanting to be her "true" self with him. Of course, that also happens to be just what Josh wants to hear to make this somewhat okay. Kimmy saying she and Devlin had something special could mean a lot of different things, from she had an emotional attachment and liked him to the situation they created for themselves was unique and gave them both something amazing they enjoyed, but was all about the moment, not emotions. It's hard to tell with Kimmy. She lies like it's not just second nature, but who she is, ingrained into her psyche. So you're never sure what's true and what isn't.

CSH

Remember what she said to Devlin in the car when he talked about how they had had something special and Kimmy told him, “until you ruined it”. She loved where she was and loved being with Devlin in public not just the sex. Her feelings for Devlin are more complex than “he’s a pig”. There’s more there than lust or at least more than sexual lust. Kimmy is a very well drawn character with many shades to her. Josh has some rough edges, I suspect that his general decency combined with his odd fetish are supposed to make him both predictable and unpredictable. But yes sometimes the swing back and forth is jarring.

Andrew Mellein

I think this is KT's darkest book yet! For me Kimmy is KT's most darkest heroine/villainess. Her other female heroines in her other epic books (the ones I read) were at least led there by their husbands. But Kimmy openly cheats with Devlin in the first chapter. I hope it doesn't have a nice tidy ending like Happy Endings where Josh watches Devlin and Kimmy doing the hanky panky! Those are different books and stories. I pray that their is real consequences (besides the pregnancy) to Kimmys actions. I want Josh to find out the truth and leave, maybe find someone else! Devlin dies in a plane crash and Kimmy ends up raising Devlins love child but pining for Josh who has no love for her. In essence she loses the two men she cares about! But that's just my wish fulfillment!

CSH

It’s worth a round of betting! Or polling. I vote that first time with Devlin in the hotel. I admit I still think it would be funny if it was when Devlin whacked off into her undies though, lol.

L_S87

Hmmm, your turn to make me think! While Kimmy couched the not quitting in terms of her enjoying playing that role and it merely being for getting them ahead monetarily, she has admitted, even when she left Devlin a few chapters ago, that they have a connection she wishes they didn't have. That one that made both of them smile, even when Kimmy didn't want to. Plus, I also recall her stating several times that she liked the idea of taking a weekend vacation with him. Where they could spend the night together, beyond just sex. Some of that could be worn off by how angry she is at what he did to Josh, but you're right, up until this last bit, she didn't completely dislike him and even found reasons to defend him to Josh when talking about Devlin's bullying. I think the way she frames her "we're in trouble" speech in the next chapter may help point the way, though we'll only really know when she sees Devlin again and get to see how she reacts.

Donkatsu

Going back to ancient history, wasn't one turning point when Josh told Kimmy about his HS mistreatment at the hands of Devlin. He clearly dropped a few notches in her estimation at that point. She told him to toughen up but he could not go there. At the same time, she saw exploitable vulnerability in Josh with regard to building up his belief that he has control of anything done to/by/for/with/at Devlin, relative to Kimmy or anything or anyone else. Kimmy's understanding of this allows her to manipulate his kink, and with that the rest of him, playing it and him like a highly responsive musical instrument. A question for you counters: when did Kimmy become pregnant? Could there have been full sex, with internal release, at the reunion or was that too long ago to be relevant except for Devlin to torture a drunk Josh with his moist elephantine appendage?

Kat

I don’t know. There have been times in the books where she’s commented to herself that she enjoys spending time with him, and being seen with him. She fantasized about a life with him, living there, when she was in his apartment having sex with his suit. I think she protests too much about disliking Devlin. I don’t think there’s any love there for him, but I think there’s somewhat more than just sexual desire. She can’t separate from him. Like Josh said, she should have quit her job and moved on, but she can’t, and it’s not all because of what it does to Josh. These two are so screwed up. Lol I wish they would just be honest. Then they could use Devlin for whatever they wanted together, and in the end maybe get closer, while turning the tables on Devlin.

CSH

Yes, agree that Josh should be written as the skittish little pony he has shown himself to be. At some point, Kimmy’s gonna have to walk him up to the edge of the cliff, then she will likely need to push him off it. But yeah, slowly, then fast.

L_S87

I have a different take on this. Especially the pig part. She definitely has let him bully her in the past and enjoyed it, though who knows now after that last scene with them. Kimmy has been clear, multiple times, that she doesn't really like Devlin as a person. She just loves what he offers. Physically and emotionally. She knows it makes her an awful person, but he's the perfect combination that has the endowments to fulfill all her physical needs Josh can't, while also feeding her emotional needs to get off on humiliating Josh with her horrible, unwifely actions. All while being just detestable enough that she knows she'll never fall in love with him, largely because Devlin has shown zero interest in "stealing" her away from Josh, other than physically. He's the perfect sex toy that she can put away when she doesn't want him. Or so she thinks.

L_S87

Agree 100%. Especially since that would light Kimmy's humiliation kink up and make it go off, repeatedly, like a fireworks display. She'd love it. I don’t know how much Josh would, at least at first. There's a huge gulf between this retelling by Kimmy and a demand to watch her commit the ultimate sin against their marriage. Not that she'd portray it that way. It would be couched in all sort of "this is what will protect us" and "this is what we need" language. To me it would make sense to slow boil Josh up to this. Do the act a few times and retell it, garner his reaction, then demand. Otherwise there is a high chance of refusal given Josh's past reticence. But, I've been wrong about that before it what feels like magical transformations of acceptance.

Kat

You always give me something to think about. I’ve also been wondering if Kimmy is gaslighting all of us. She’s certainly been gaslighting Josh. I don’t see her ever being completely honest with Josh, unless she’s forced to. I think it’s inevitable that the truth about Kimmy and Devlin’s affair comes out. If anything, Devlin is not going to keep all the details secret, especially when there’s another chance to torment Josh. Kimmy is really giving a masterful performance. You’d almost think she’s convinced herself of the “truths” she’s feeding Josh. I also foresee hard times ahead for Josh.

Kat

CSH, I agree. All this, “Devlin is a pig, I don’t let him bully me,” is bull. Kimmy is just as addicted to what Devlin has as Josh is addicted to hearing about it. She is changing, and she’s not going to go back to how things were before now that she knows Josh will capitulate to her.

CSH

I don’t think Devlin or Kimmy are going to let Josh off that easy. No doubt she’s willing to protect him but he should lend her emotional support by being present and witnessing the deed.

L_S87

You both bring up great thoughts and analysis. My disgruntlement with the hows of Josh's capitulation aside, Kimmy's performance is masterful. I've been contemplating her "we're in trouble" line, and my theory ended up having a very funny intersection with your thoughts in what that might mean. I could easily see Kimmy saying that they're in trouble with Devlin, but she's willing to protect Josh from him and "take one for the team" (okay, lots more than one) by distracting Devlin from boiling Josh by giving him what he wants. And Kimmy already set up the narrative in her comments about how badly Devlin wants her. She protects their marriage from Devlin's machinations by using her body as a shield. It's not what she wants, but she's willing to play the game outside their home to protect it. This allows her to keep her position at the company, grow their wealth and love Josh at home. And it only takes a little sacrifice on her part, a sacrifice she'll tell Josh about every night to feed his darkness. Josh would eat that up in his current condition, lacking all the facts and only knowing the bare minimum Kimmy has fed him. He'd have no clue, and this would allow Kimmy to contain Devlin as a variable, limiting her risk of him tattling on her past. A past which is probably the only thing that could break Josh's acceptance of this new normal. This assumes Kimmy is gaslighting all of us too in her statements of devotion to Josh and is truly an evil person, only caring about her selfish wants, merely keeping Josh around for her kinks. The only other option I see is unbridled truth. Lay it all out and accept the risk of Josh's rejection, knowing it defangs Devlin if it works. Not really her MO up to this point, but then Josh's easy capitulation wasn't his either, and yet he did it, so who knows.

CSH

You hit on some really important points. Neither Josh nor Kimmy are reliable narrators. They lie to themselves and each other so they are also lying to us. Just because they say they want something doesn’t mean they do. Chuck Taylor wearing Kimmy is who she was and cold hard legal shark Kimmy is who she wants to be. But who is she now? We are witnessing her moment of choosing. Josh is addicted to her humiliating him and she is now hooked on dominating him. I think the whole, ‘I’m standing up to Devlin thing’ is BS, she loves getting railed by Devlin and the more dominant he is the more she likes it. Josh is in for a rough ride.

Kat

I need to re-read the last three chapters again together. I usually read a chapter a few times over. This one gave me such a stomach ache. There’s so much here to process. Josh is so controlled by his need to be humiliated and hurt by her. He’s going to regret it later, but for now it seems to have made him love her more. Kimmy is clearly getting off dominating Josh, but is that all it is? She’s definitely still into being with Devlin. She told Josh in the previous chapter that she was playing a role with Devlin. I think she’s playing a role with Josh. She’s becoming more and more tough and cold. We see it in how she dominates him, and gets pleasure from it. All throughout the past few books, she’s been enjoying getting away with cheating, and taunting him in bed, without barely any guilt. Since the Royal York, she’s been enjoying her double life, immensely. Apart from the two weeks of crying and moping, she now seems resigned and confident in her new role as dominant Kimmy. She’s not telling Josh the whole story, of course, but what she’s telling him is bad enough. She should feel way more guilt and shame than she appears to. Best friend Kimmy, Chuck Taylor wearing Kimmy is becoming her role, her past. I think cold, lawyer Kimmy is the real person. Maybe I’m wrong, but their relationship has changed. They can’t go back, and they both know it. I’m dying to know how her pregnancy will figure into this. Is that why she telling him they’re in trouble? Is that the one thing that will cause Josh to leave her, being pregnant with Devlin’s child? I want to see her suffer some form of consequence for her deceit, or see her getting revenge over Devlin. I need more story! I’m waiting with my stomach hurting. Lol Another Kimmy chapter, please!

L_S87

Some really good points, especially the thousand yard stare. You could practically physically feel Kimmy mulling things over in her mind, disconnecting from Josh for a brief moment while she ponders what this means, for her and their marriage. My consternation comes from the fact that not two chapters ago, Kimmy was having to abandon ship on her plan because Josh was angry, and yet here, a mere two chapters later, he accepts even worse, no anger. What happened in those two chapters to suddenly boil his frog enough that this is now okay? It feels too easy, simple... convenient. I expected this moment to be difficult, impactful, momentus. And for me, at least, it didn't feel that way. This is of critical importance, and I just lost that somehow. I will say, on retrospect, that my magical statement was too harsh. In rereading the last few chapters, I puzzled out some nuances that do help explain a few things. Like the fact that this is the first time Kimmy has done this. She's never been this dominant, in control. This is the first time she's told the entire truth, made it clear that's what it was, and was completely unapologetic about her actions. She leaned into them. Made them "acceptable", at least in her mind and how she portrayed her role. She also embraced her humiliation kink, fully. That statement about being bullied.. oof. That was clearly for her, to turn her on, knowing it would crush Josh's psyche. And he picked up on that. That smile, that scares him but also says she's in control and can "protect" him. Perhaps that's all why acceptance was easy. Plus, Others are right from before, this isn't over by a long shot. Because all of this stuff was still bookended by Josh, once again, for the seemingly millionth time, bringing up how this is all his fault and he's to blame, not Kimmy. I have to believe, with how often KT pushes that forward, it has to mean something. That at some point the lie that Josh hinges *everything* on, will have an impact that changes everything. That's why I find the "we're in trouble" line so interesting. It feels like Kimmy is going to open up more about some of what she did, and she's trying to tie them together so it's not her fuck up behind Josh's back that needs fixing, it's *their* problem to resolve. And she's leaning in to his insecurity about her leaving him to accomplish it. We'll see. Can't wait!

CSH

I imagine Josh’s angst about what they are doing comes afterward. I would agree that he should not accept so easily, but this chapter makes it clear that Kimmy’s sexual control is addictive to them both. I do like that Josh, in that moment of sexual gratification is working to convince himself that this is okay and all will be fine. That’s what he has done all along. I think many have an issue with Josh because they don’t understand his psychology and see him as a weakly drawn character. I prefer to see him as addicted to the sexual humiliation. He hates this treatment but also desperately needs it so he tells himself he can handle it. The real transformation here, I suspect is in Kimmy and her understanding that to keep Josh she’s either going to have to be honest and walk away from Devlin or she must accept treating Josh this way. Maybe she accepts that she’s really thrilled to treat him this way. Love that thousand yard stare she was giving at the end and I think a Kimmy POV is due. I think she has realized what she’s getting and what she’s lost.

Donkatsu

From the Manchurian Candidate: "{Raymond Shaw} Kimmy Chang is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

L_S87

To be honest, I love this scene, and yet I hate it. Its both the most amazing expose of human emotion, and yet feels like some downright awful Harry Pottering. The hurt, strife, anguish mixed with deft manipulation, domination, yet culminating in love, caring and understanding was amazing to read. And yet... The magic wand approach to Josh magically being okay with this just feels off-putting to me. I'm in a weird place, because this is almost exactly what I wanted to happen but... the way Josh goes from books worth of angst and anger to... meh, I guess I'm okay with this... just feels wrong. All of this pain, anguish, suffering washed away in a single, simple paragraph feels awry. Amiss. This was supposed to be hard fought, difficult, yet it doesn't feel that way. So all the impact, the importance, of this moment feels lost. Give me another chapter, KT. I want to feel like there's more here than this. Maybe I'm just reading this all wrong. I am very interested to find out what Kimmy says about "them" being in trouble since most of the issues out there are huge landmines for Kimmy to keep Josh, definitely not "we" problems.

CSH

Josh is right. Kimmy is just the sweetest, most loving wife ever. He’s lucky to have her. Anyway all the bad stuff was his fault anyway. This was a great end to the scene. And now we’ll see where Kimmy leads her very trusting hubby.


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