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DITW 15-17: Now We Know Good & Evil

🕑 Added 2024-10-24 21:41:19 +0000 UTC

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Bill F Protagoras

"Josh studied her, his soft eyes roaming her naked body, wondering if she told him the truth. And what would he think of her if he deemed her truthful? That she was good? That she was noble? Maybe he would hear this confession as sin. As a promise of her powerful malice. It could frighten him

Bill F Protagoras

In a lucid dream Colin Farrell dressed in a full body suit and prosthetic face wearing, as was his wont, only an unbuttoned shirt and swinging a sturdy cudgel between his legs played the part of Devlin Stone. Chris Evans CGI-ed as scant Steve Rogers BEFORE he was super soldiered stood in for Josh... and the real Kimmy... Mari Yamamoto teased them unashamedly with her nakedness as the trailer for season one of DITW was filmed. All the actors looked much younger than they should have...

Bill F Protagoras

Re "But it's very typical? Expected? The way this is going I can't tell it apart from any other ACHE author." Yet it's still not exactly the hotwife sanctity of matrimony is it? Where they kiss the boo boo and 'Amor vincit omnia is all they wrote,' is it Chris? I'm still intrigued about DITW... how about you? Long live the half life of 50's US TV... It still has virtual reality in its clutches... offering insubstantial means of escape. Wish fulfilment... Paah! I fart in eets general direcceeon! Although maybe if I made an 'educated wish' it would re-establish 'the sacred timeline!"

Bill F Protagoras

A man who honours his principles. I still fondly remember " Kolchack: The Night Stalker"...

Bill F Protagoras

When I said Amazon I was being tactful... the big A is a polite denomination...

Bill F Protagoras

Still waters run deep... because we receive more small snippets of Josh's thoughts than anyone else, doesn't mean he is shallow... as you observe, Pete, his eccentric actions speak much louder than words. Though Kimmy seems all tough exterior I think that Josh could slide an unintentional revelatory verbal stiletto between the edges of her cynical carapace and wound her heart irreparably. Then for once the thick trickle down her thigh would be more vital to her than Devlin's hurtful spunk. Josh is no longer safely tucked away inside Kimmy's stylish pocket.

L_S87

Yeah, as much as I love the ease of access for all the Kindle Unlimited books I read or simply buy outright, Amazon's policies regarding "acceptability" of subjects or books is cloudy at best, and downright bigoted at times at the worst. Especially given there rarely is any recourse if they make a decision on anything from posting a review to uploading a book. They make arbitrary decisions and getting ahold of someone that actually has a clue or power to change something may as well be impossible with how difficult it is. I stopped reviewing anything on Amazon after a particular experience and I can only imagine how awful it is for someone like KT to navigate the red tape.

Bill F Protagoras

Amazon...

Kat

I think maybe he means the author?

Pete

The big "A" Bill? Could you elaborate?

Pete

Great points by all. One thing I'm still struggling to sort is all the instances where Josh's words and behavior hasn't made sense. For example, I never expected Josh to jerk off into Kimmy's panties, or not confront Kimmy once he found her panties, or wear those panties for Devlin, or show that he was wearing those panties to Devlin, even though Devlin never asked, or demand that his bully fuck his wife right in front of him, or let his wife position his bully's cock on top of his, directly illustrating for his own wife (and all 3 of them) just how inferior his cock is to Devlins, or, or, or. I end that way, because I'm sure you all have several other situations or reactions that didn't make sense for you, and I think some of you have mentioned them in the past. What if all that IS consistent with who Josh is. I guess I'm suggesting that maybe Josh should be looked at as an addict (of his kink). Bear with me. Think about Josh. Skilled in denial and avoidance. Tells rational lies to himself and others. Acts irrationally (see examples above). And shame and fear are his most common bedmates. Aren't those traits of an addict? I guess I'm just thinking that this lens of addict may help us more holistically understand ALL of Josh's actions.

Kat

It could be Hyun. She seemed really upset in the kitchen. Josh is referring to her as their babysitter and their roommate. I think finding out the truth could do something. Maybe Hyun will turn on Kimmy? She may not know the whole story, too. She says Kimmy told her everything, but as we know, Kimmy tends to leave out the parts which are really bad for her. Who knows? There’s not much time left for a big twist. :(

Bill F Protagoras

L_S, I will reluctantly succumb to boredom and stop buying them... there are plenty of brilliant books left to read and life grows shorter daily. Why hide my head in a hole in the ground when the funeral pyre awaits... No rest for the wicked till the 'fade to black' slams silently shut like a backdoor marked exit. All stories are the same (according to the 'experts'), like jokes, it's the way ya tellum!

Bill F Protagoras

When, in the Heart of Darkness, Kurtz looks on the Hell he has created in the Congo he says, "The horror, the horror!" it's difficult to know if in extremis he is referring to the savagery roiling beneath the Colonial veneer... or the 'woman' he fled from in his European 'home'. Then there is the image of Brando broken by 'the sorrows of empire' clasping his sweat and filth streaked bald camouflaged head... In anguish, despair or resignation? Cryptic colouration...

Kat

You’ve all made good points. It slipped my mind about the lack of trust that’s still there between Josh and Kimmy. Kimmy is walking on eggshells, because she fears losing Josh again, and Josh hasn’t been back with her long enough to trust her. She did so many terrible things to him, betrayed him in unforgivable ways, it’s easy to understand why he can’t trust her. My point was that he loved the fantasy. He still loves the fantasy. In the hotel, he asked her to make his dreams true, and she did. He nearly killed himself afterwards, because the truth in living colour was a horror for him, a horror that still turned him on. Still, a year later, he’s going back to those fantasies made true by Kimmy. He still wants them, but without the betrayal. He asked Kimmy to tell him the truth. Granted, she could have started off with the truth a little more gently, but Josh now needs this stuff to get off. He loves it and hates it. He also loves Kimmy, but doesn’t trust her. She’s only doing what she thinks he wants. It turns her on, too. It’s probably also freeing for her to confess in a way that (she thinks) works for both of them. They can’t go back. This is who they are now.

JL23

Yeah, thinking something could be real, and then finding out it actually all was real, are 2 very different things. I guess I read a lot of this chapter as Josh putting his faith in Kimmy, to tell him the truth but also to know where the lines are better than him moving forward. As I said, the hurt, shame, betrayal, humiliation, etc is always going to be mixed in there for Josh. If they can get to a place where everything is laid out, there are no more secrets, then perhaps they can put all this in a lockbox where only they have the keys, and they both choose when to lock and unlock it. Assuming they can get there, the other challenge, as it generally is with the cuckold in these stories, will be whether this is enough, or if there is going to be constant temptation to ramp things up more and more, and how they both handle that and still maintain a "partnership" in this. That is probably not an answer we are going to get in this story, but one I'd speculate about. Eventually, I don't think this "safer" game will be enough for either of them.

L_S87

To be fair to Josh, or at least from my POV, his struggles have to do with a lack of trust in Kimmy (because they haven't had nearly enough time together for that to be earned and to truly be where they're at) and a struggle with melding fantasy with reality. While Kimmy is still a lying bitch about many things, in this book regarding Keith and Hyun, she *is* being very truthful here. She's giving him the truth he asked for. No lies and no evasions. So far. And I think Josh is struggling because it was "fun" when he could tell himself it was fake, a fantasy. Now he knows all these things are true. She did all of them for real. And while it turns him on, it also hurts, a lot. Because he can't just enjoy the dark playfulness she's offering, it also makes him have to ponder that if he wasn't good enough before, then how can he possibly believe her when she says he's good enough now? She did all those things for herself, because she was getting something Josh couldn't give. Yet he's supposed to trust she no longer needs to scratch that itch that she happily ruined her marriage for? He's probably also struggling with the fact that this is his doing. He asked for this. So she's giving it to him. Well before they're actually emotionally stable enough for it to not cause a catastrophe.

L_S87

Pete, big twist probably makes more sense, although it could be both. There's always the possibility of something showing up that Kimmy has lied by ommission about that she then shares. Like Hyun (not saying that should be the reveal, only that Josh has been lied to about that, so there could be other things)

L_S87

Bill, to be fair to those people, many read something because they like the story the author is telling. If the author constantly ends the story in a way the person doesn't like, they'll simply stop reading. As I'm sure any author can attest, no readers equals no money, so catering to your audience makes sense. Although I do get your point that if it feels like your favorite authors are changing their story to something you specifically don't like to appease others, now you're in the position of having to dislike the story and choose whether to keep reading or not.

Bill F Protagoras

"Instead, it was the same sadistic games they’d played a year ago."

Bill F Protagoras

"Kimmy landed contract after contract for Keith Stone because no one could suck a cock like her." Whose wishful thoughts?

Bill F Protagoras

"Measuring its inadequacy with her eyes, measuring the shortcoming in the task she needed it for."

Pete

I do find it super confusing what Josh wants. Josh's mind is so muddled. In this scene, I believe he even outright says that he doesn't know what he wants. I feel like shaking the bloke, "Dude, make a damn decision. Stop expecting your wife to read your effin mind, and see some boundary that you yourself can't even see." I swear, if she accidentally crosses this clearly obscure line, and he slut shames her for it yet again... I.... I just don't have words.

Bill F Protagoras

Also Kat as I have always believed manipulation is a language skill we all use... it's hardly surprising he's learnt from a mistress... Despite popular belief 'you' do play a player. If you don't you ought to...

Pete

A big reveal? Or a big twist?

Bill F Protagoras

Hey, Andrew, have you been watching "Grotesquerie"? So Josh is neither normal nor a cuckold but he does love Colleen. Pride oft comes before a fall. Or is it once a cuckold always a cuckold, or is there just a high incidence of recidivism?

Bill F Protagoras

So I've noticed Chris, and not just her, it's a general noxious trend... Readers who have prejudices about writers tailoring stories to their needs are ruining my favourite authors. Of course, its the big A that twists the thumb screws.

Kat

I vote for one more big reveal. :)

Bill F Protagoras

Also as Pete suggested it wouldn't be impossible for him to have his daughter and, as I think would be delicious irony, and take his cynical wife for all the exotic eroticism he can get... even get his cold dish served. Not that I condone it, but there's them that would. Honesty among thieves?

Donkatsu

The showrunner, David Chase, just had a two episode special on the making of the Sopranos. Just as he was explaining the ending, that show also cut to black.

Chris K

Fun fact. I had an exchange with Kirsten McCurran about HEAs. She does not like them for some of her stories! Lol. But, because of fans demands (and her husband), she writes them, while cringing!!

Chris K

I certainly hope so. And I'm certainly ready for it!

Bill F Protagoras

Have watched the Series twice and stand by the strength of the ending too. The cut to black was eloquent as fuck... like Tony didn't know what hit him! But we know when...

L_S87

I almost wrote the same thing, but pulled back because it felt like I was passing judgement instead of waiting like I said I would. While we're almost done, there's still a number of unresolved issues, so it will be interesting to see if they stay that way or are addressed in some form or fashion. Like you, if things continue this way, it will feel somewhat disappointing that this series, which was so far outside of the norm for a lot of it, and how dark and daring it was, to basically end in a ho-hum fashion. If it does. I'm hoping KT has one more big reveal to drop on us. She's great at those.

Bill F Protagoras

I haven't even finished Infinite Jest yet, he's a clever witty writer but the displacement and ballast of his themes make it easier for me to be titillated and drawn off after the prizes of flightier or more informative vessels. I never give an opinion on a promising work until I've read it all the way through... So, sorry...

Kat

Don’t do it, KT, please! Lol

Chris K

It is well written. No doubt about that. But it's very typical? Expected? The way this is going I can't tell it apart from any other ACHE author.

L_S87

That line struck me too, Bill. Mostly because it's bullshit. Not the sentiment, only it working for them at this point. That path only works with trust and truth. Something they don't have at all. Just a few chapters ago Kimmy was lying up a storm to him. Josh was barely able to stop her the first time with Devlin, and only after she completely destroyed them with lies and betrayal. Him stopping her only works if he can trust her to tell him everything so he can say no when it's too much. But that's never how she plays the game. So it's a false premise to assume Josh has any sort of power to stop her if she goes to far. It's purely reliant on her to sacrifice her wants for his well being. I have my doubts on that ever working out.

KT Morrison

Mm, I watched every Sopranos episode and loved the series ending...

KT Morrison

You know: I've never read DFW yet! I think I would like him, but I've never given him a go...

L_S87

I'm going to wait for the next chapter before I fully formulate an opinion on this. It's insanely well written from the standpoint of how quickly and deeply Josh is once again allowing himself to fall into the depravity Kimmy so happily provides. From that standpoint it's spectacular. I have serious misgivings from a broader viewpoint in how easily this is happening as it feels less about Josh embracing his darkness and Kimmy lovingly helping him and more that this is simply the most expedient path for Kimmy to "win". Given this current path, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Devlin does make another appearance. I don't know if I see it as a guarantee, but the ease with which so much else has been laid at Kimmy's feet with minimal effort, it almost feels fitting. I don't know if it would make sense given her "I only love you and only want what's right for you" story she's telling, but so much else about this last book has been haphazard at times that it feels almost inevitable for something like that to happen. I can't wait to see how it ends. Wonder what the epilogue will look like.

Kat

I agree with you that this is something they both can’t give up. It’s one of the things that binds them together. Kimmy has taken it too far before, but I doubt anything she’s said here will make Josh leave. He wanted the fantasy made true, with faithfulness. That’s what she’s now offering him. Well, faithfulness if you don’t count Hyun. Lol

Chris K

Uh huh

Bill F Protagoras

Well worth waiting for and I have a gut feeling the 'best' is yet to come...

JL23

I don't think he's really changed Kat. All of these feelings are mixed up into one murky and explosive substance coursing through his veins. It just needs to be mixed properly to avoid blowing him up, in a metaphorical sense. To take a positive view, in a way he's putting a level of trust in Kimmy to know where the line is, that maybe she does know better than him. But in a negative spin, does she? We've seen her think she does before, only to step over that line. That could still happen here. I personally would find it exhausting, but I think it drives both their engines to a point they can't give it up.

Bill F Protagoras

“I’ll show you,” she said. “And you stop me when I’m wrong.” "Eaten up with guilt, shame, fears and insecurities and obtaining, if he’s lucky, a barely perceptible physical feeling, the male is, nonetheless, obsessed with screwing; he’ll swim through a river of snot, wade nostril-deep through a mile of vomit, if he thinks there’ll be a friendly pussy awaiting him." Solanas, Valerie. SCUM Manifesto

Bill F Protagoras

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest

Bill F Protagoras

Perhaps the "page turner" will earn Kimmy a hands free spontaneous miniature volcanic eruption science projection prize!

Donkatsu

I guess she had to start by reminding Josh where he stands on the sexual totem pole. What's in it for her sexually if she does not take this taunting show on the road? She has told Josh he can give her psychic sexual income (plus a good muff dive every now and then). But psychic income does not spin the orgasm machine. Her previous psychic income came at the end of the real thing, delivered by Devlin. We're rewatching the Sopranos right now and I wonder if this series, like that one, will end with a sudden cut to black, just as we maybe, kinda, sorta, saw Devlin reenter the scene.

Bill F Protagoras

Instalment jam packed with womanly indecency to incite all the outrage and umbrage that Kimmy's unpardonably wicked transgressions so richly deserve... flagellation is too good for her...

Bill F Protagoras

Yet knowing good and evil do we know everything?

Bill F Protagoras

I have a feeling everybody is getting what they want... going to feel justified in one way or another. I am going to probably kind of have to apologise to CSH without resorting to any mealy mouthed qualifications or glib disqualifications. 'I' apparently am easily pleased by you... but we'll see what we shall see without my having to unsee anything I've gleefully read written by you in the stagnant and tide waxed or waned waters up to now... and maybe even speculatively gaze on Kimmy's vainglorious wake nostalgically. People frequently boast they can read others like a book.

Andrew Mellein

Any normal man who doesn't want to be a cuckold would totally split after Kimmy's revelation. And immediately file for divorce. I bet he stays there.

Kat

What I don’t get is how Josh was itching for this kind of stuff in the earlier chapters, but now that he’s getting it he’s unsure, uncomfortable with it. This is what he wanted, the fantasy without the cheating. He asked her to talk about Devlin. She didn’t bring it up first. In Chapter 14, “(he was) scared to reunite with the Kimmy of before. The mild-mannered one. The kind one. The one he married. That Kimmy made him feel uncomfortable now. He wouldn’t know how to act with that one. The Kimmy who’d set him on fire last year and burned him to a crisp...? Now that one excited him.” In Chapter 15, “And now that he’d kissed her, sucked on her neck, told her he wanted her and wanted to stay, that dark part of his mind knew the bad things he loved would soon come his way.” He wanted just what Kimmy gave him. He asked her to be honest with him, too. He has to find a way to get his shame under control or he’s going to wreck this reunion. Kimmy wants him, only him. We saw her break it off with Hyun. She burned Devlin, and took his job. I’m kind of siding with Kimmy here. Josh needs to figure out what he wants. Kimmy is trying to give him what he’s been wanting all night. How should she act? He said he didn’t want the Kimmy from before. As for the big reveal at the end, he had to have figured that out already on his own. Hearing it come from Kimmy’s mouth is another story. I’m now more curious about Hyun. What went on with them in the last year, and will Josh ever find out?

Kat

Yay! I can’t wait to read this.

JL23

Well, there's another revelation I know some people were waiting for. Appears we're settling all business. I guess this is where I can't get myself totally in the mind of a cuckold. Josh loves this, hates this, loves that he hates it, and hates that he loves it...all at the same time. It seems exhausting lol. Again, I'm not Josh but I'm really not totally sure to be happy or sad for him. Maybe it's both? Anyway, feels like the last the big secret left is Hyun. We'll see if that's coming next.


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