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DITW 15-22: Chymical Wedding

🕑 Added 2025-01-30 19:24:04 +0000 UTC

Comments

Kat

Right? That’s the only issue I have with where this story is going. It’s missing something for Kimmy. She left her husband after he tried to kill himself, and watched from afar as he crumbled. Sure, she punished herself, according to her bedmate Hyun, but she could have reached out to him when she had the paternity results, and not waited for him to come to her. And this punishment and hard work she put herself through, was really for her own benefit. She even said it herself, when she gets Josh back she’ll have it all. I believe that she loves Josh, and can’t live without him. I also think that Josh needs to be with her, as well. As you said, he has nothing else, and now he has a baby and his wife back. What other option is there for him? Maybe Kimmy went through her comeuppance, but we didn’t get to see it? The story isn’t over yet. Maybe Hyun will cause her some trouble? I feel like we’re waiting for Josh to grab Hyun’s strap on, so he can use the Devlin replica on Kimmy. And in that, Kimmy gets everything she wants.

L_S87

For my piece, I didn't read Donkatsu's multiple choices as what he wants KT to do so much as it's a theoretical question of what we the readers think is going on. I've written other posts, even in this chapter, of what I would "want", but that doesn't make this bad, only disappointing in some ways. The choices Donkatsu provided are thought provoking because they allow for multiple equations on what is really happening, because we really don't know. I'm kinda waiting for a final chapter where the curtain is pulled back slightly and Kimmy is still doing Kimmy things, with Josh none the wiser, until she convinced him it's okay because now he's been duped into accepting her being horrible.

L_S87

I think Kimmy is marketing it as A while projecting B while in her deepest darkest depths she wants it to be C. I think Josh is at "b". He could easily regress to "a" depending on Kimmy's actions.

L_S87

Kat, you pretty much hit the nail on the head for me on why this rankles. It's not really so much that it's unbelievable that Josh would be so quickly accepting, it's that he's accepting because he's bereft of any reason to live. And Kimmy backed him into that corner. She made that happen. Sure, he was angry at first and put his foot down, almost seemed like he'd walk away, and Kimmy was a crying mess, but only because she wasn't getting her way. Only because she set up this scenario and Josh wasn't as desperate as she wanted. But he was, he was just hiding it. Their daughter tugged on it and he was helpless to resist. Yet he's only there because Kimmy put him in purgatory for over a year. His attempts to get out of it failed. All like it was part of Kimmy's plan. I don't want to call her evil, but her ability to justify her selfish actions as being best for others is unfathomably deep. I wanted her to get her comeuppance. Of all KTs characters, she's deserved it the most. Yet, here we are. It's a bit maddening.

Donkatsu

"lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand,, just find a place to make your stand, and take it easy." Good advice from Don Henley.

Bill F Protagoras

No need... I beat you to it... I have no intention of waiting for further accusations... I have canceled my membership.

Chris K

Your more welcome than I am. I bow out.

Bill F Protagoras

OK, no more magically bulldozing comments by making my own comments, Chris. Thank you both for your own candid opinions. It's nice to know where I don't stand... or you feel l am unwelcome in standing.

Bill F Protagoras

I don't think arbitrary multiple choice is democracy... I don't think 'literary democracy' has anything to do with your post! Whatever you think literary democracy might be... sure D you were just interested in that... helpfully guiding the author in providing an explanation of the novel... before it's finished.

Donkatsu

Whassamadda, Bill you don’t like literary democracy😎 In fact, the general plot for Devil was the result of a poll by KT on her old website after the Maggie saga ignited so much discussion. The assembled multitudes have expressed a wide array of opinions about Kimmy’s sincerity, Josh’s fortitude, and gaslighting as a higher calling. I was just interested in where we came out after so many electrons have made the ultimate sacrifice.

Chris K

As opposed to your faux democratic demands on what we are allowed to say, or not say, based on our opinions of a story we are also paying to support? Sometimes we are excited, upset, sarcastic or just left wondering. But all still here. KT certainly has a sense of humor and can understand we when are simply taking the piss out of entry for amusement, but I can't imagine she's too happy about your bulldozing the comments when we are not in total agreement with your point of view.

Bill F Protagoras

I thought we had opinions on KT's writing and our interpretations of it... not made pre-emptive faux 'democratic' demands... If we are going to start telling her how to write count me out. I joined up to support KT not to undermine her and resurrect Little Nell! I can, of course, hope Donkatsu's modest proposal is satyrical.

Chris K

C(a)

Donkatsu

KT, don't we need a new poll wrt Kimmy and Josh? A. Kimmy has grown and turned over a new leaf. She accepts Josh as her soulmate and will do anything to make him happy. B. Kimmy wants Josh to adjust to Kimmy's needs but is willing to do so gently and with some acknowledgment of her previous abuse of him; or C. Kimmy has re-packaged and re-marketed the same old stuff and is performing a massive re-tooling of Josh to meet her sexual thrills at cheating and size queening. And: a. Josh is the same old tool and bully bait as ever. He deserves however Kimmy treats him; b. Josh has grown but still has significant weaknesses and vulnerabilities wrt Kimmy and Devlin. Kimmy adapts her taunting, teasing and extracurriculars to his new and improved self; or c. Josh is orchestrating the entire circus either consciously or through some Jedi mind trick and Kimmy is just reacting to the power of Josh's Force.

Bill F Protagoras

I stroke my chin at the edge of the stage, and behind my hand in a faux whisper to the audience wonder what the cheat's husband could possibly be up to...

Bill F Protagoras

Character... integrity, rectitude, goodness, decency, reliability, fidelity...

Bill F Protagoras

Does KT ever cloak herself as an omniscient narrator or is the 'character' Josh always tainted by the personal prejudice? "Joshua fit the battle of Jericho. Refrain: Joshua fought the battle of Jericho, Jericho, Jericho. Joshua fought the battle of Jericho, and the walls came tumbling down. You may talk about the men of Gideon; you may talk about the men of Saul; there's none like good old Joshua, at the battle of Jericho. (Refrain) Up to the walls of Jericho he marched with sword in hand. "Go blow those ram's horns," Joshua cried, "for the battle is in God's hands." (Refrain) Then the horns began to bellow, the trumpets began to sound, and Joshua commanded the children to shout, and the walls came tumbling down. (Refrain)" Is Josh ironically the unsung hero? Not his wife's sap! In 'Learning Lessons' Pete's job (albeit unjustly) serves early on as the yardstick of his insecurity and the dubious measure of his 'character'... In DITW, Josh's job, his workmates, his boss, his clients, his friends and acquaintances, his family, his crush, even his barber, even at his lowest ebb obliquely tell us a different much more flattering tale than the thinner ranks of his smug detractors... Evidence that he threw himself in the freezing waters is purely circumstantial, and in the eye of the beholder... let us imagine that when he puts Kimmy right... reminding her he FELL in the water, maybe he is not just letting her off the hook but insinuating she is not the FUCKING center of the universe. And might not her insistent craving to WIN back his love be influenced by a wayward twinge of jealousy of her greatest rival... Colleen.

Bill F Protagoras

She seems so in control, and controlling, but does she know what she wants. What she really really wants. KT gave us fleeting glimpses of Kimmy's mental vorágine. When she disastrously tried to bare her soul to Josh and vainly stake her claim to his love. She keeps a tight lid on it... and need drives her as much as desire.

Bill F Protagoras

And this work, Kat, may well be KT's most impressively provocative. In an abundance of ways.

Bill F Protagoras

Yup, L_S, "There are more questions than answers..." And... “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, my friend, than are dreamt of in OUR philosophy.”

Bill F Protagoras

Another extremely cogent point, Kat! It would be a mistake to fall into the quagmire of belief that Kimmy Chang is the sole protagonist of this massive complex work!

Kat

That’s what makes KT’s writing so thought provoking.

Bill F Protagoras

Yes, Kat, one of KT's greatest talents, like her protagonists', is to plant the seeds of doubt we harvest.

Bill F Protagoras

One brilliant speculative interpretive vision out of many Glaucon! I love it... but perhaps Kimmy's greatest gift, and failing, is to convince us that the devil does exist, and she is the mother of lies and not a lost defeated soul discovering that the pursuit of happiness is not an exhilarating sprint but a gruelling marathon... not victory, but the prelude to a new struggle. "Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw?"

Bill F Protagoras

Can she help herself? Or Josh? How often is honesty the best policy... or even a virtue?

Kat

That’s the part I still have the most trouble in accepting, that she walked out on Josh the day after he was released from the hospital, and as you said, watched him crumble. She made him come back to her, when she should have been the one going to him.

Chris K

I don't think jail time was a real possibility, just a mild threat for compliance. And her crying herself to sleep doesn't hold any weight with Hyun always being there for her. Not to mention, she chose to leave and watched as Josh crumbled. But for all that, she still persevered and came out on top. Some things have only been a mild inconvenience for her, but easily managed. Case in point, she was most worried about her family. She told them she cheated and her dad helped her buy a house. Easy.

Kat

This book only takes place in the space of two years, or so, of their life together. We don’t see anything of what their relationship was like before the miscarriage. All we know is that Kimmy was a ”timid mouse”, working in an altruistic job helping immigrants. Maybe there is more holding them together? It would have to be a lot to get over what Kimmy did, but Josh seems to be able to accept it.

Kat

I also don’t think that Kimmy suffered enough punishment for what she’s done, but maybe it’s because there’s the year jump in the book? We don’t get to see Kimmy crying herself to sleep in Hyun’s bedroom, or working her ass off to keep herself out of jail. We don’t even get to see her stick it to Devlin. (That part I really wanted to see!)

Kat

I have never been Kimmy’s greatest fan, but I don’t think she’s being evil here. After the situation with Devlin and Amy, something in her seemed to switch. She didn’t like herself and what she’d become. She still loved tormenting Josh, but only in a the space of him enjoying it, too. I believe she doesn’t want to hurt Josh for real. I actually think she needs Josh more than he needs her. Without Josh, she would have nothing to morally ground her. With that being said, what the hell is going in with Hyun? That’s the one thing holding me back from totally believing Kimmy. Not to mention, with the headboard banging against the wall, etc., what kind of torture is Hyun being put through, while she “babysits” Colleen?

Kat

I guess there can something said for if someone is exposed to something enough they can grow to like it. The thing is that Josh was turned on by this from the very beginning, in the first book. After Devlin came into the tent and taunted him (quite grossly I might add), he couldn’t stop fantasizing about Kimmy with Devlin. It drove him crazy. And even after he found out it was real, it turned him on even more, while also making him sick. Kimmy is conditioning him to accept this about himself. Whether it was real, or a conditioning thing we might never know.

Chris K

Don't know about Josh in the arms of another, it's not needed. But, while all of this is supposedly for him, everything was done without him being there. He never had a say. And the fact still stands that she is a cheater. I want Josh to be an adult and realize he can't trust her. (Or Hyun for that matter). Kimmy wants to present this as perfect for everyone, but had to manipulate everyone to get here. This needs to be perfect for her. I'll just keep holding out hope that she is all alone in that house at the end, with nothing to control.

L_S87

Oh, I don't disagree, Chris. I think both of us are in the "This is well written but I don't really like the ending" camp. Mostly because, while the scenario was amazingly unique, and so are Kimmy's and Josh's interactions, the ending feels like we've been here a dozen times. Yet it's worse because the sins were so much graver, yet the punishment, or lack there of, and ultimate ending was the same. That's how it feels now. We'll see what the ultimate ending is. I don't want to speak for you, but I think both of us feel the crime deserved a permanent punishment. One that never came. Probably would have felt differently if Josh had been living a good life with a buxom blonde on his arm while Kimmy suffered. Somewhat like Cherry Blossoms. Although again, this was so much worse. Sometimes you don't deserve redemption, no matter how much a person may crave it.

Chris K

Right. But what it boils down to is, Kimmy gets another W.

Glaucon

Even if there's no "twist" at the end revealing a darker machination, I think what's shown in the series to this point is plenty dark enough, as you point out above. There's some discussion here about Josh "accepting his true self" but what does true self mean? We know that Kimmy has spent a very long time now intentionally maneuvering Josh into this headspace. Is this kink his true self or has Kimmy just conditioned him to it? A few chapters back there's reference to Josh sort of being emotionally leveraged into taking on this kink as a survival mechanism. Seems to me that it would be a legitimate interpretation that this is a sort of erotic horror story about someone gaslighting and manipulating their spouse into accepting and even eroticizing a pretty terrible betrayal.

L_S87

I think you're right. For me, the question becomes, is he actually realizing this because he wants it, or is he simply accepting Kimmy maneuvering him down this path because he feels like he has no other options? Josh was destitute for a year from an emotional standpoint. Kimmy showing him their daughter left him ripe for the picking. He initially fought back, but how much of this is acceptance because of what he truly wants, and Kimmy, the great manipulator and liar, twisting him towards her own devices? To be fair to Kimmy, she often does these things because she thinks she knows what's better for Josh than he does. That's problematic on many levels, but it's not like she's being evil like Devlin with what's happened over these last few chapters...or is she? It's hard not to worry that the book will end with her showing something duplicitous.

L_S87

Taken at face value, I agree. The problem is those other books did occur. So is Josh deluding himself to trust someone who has proven to be untrustworthy, or is Kimmy, the serial liar, not actually lying here. Josh has learned a lot, and is now giving in because he thinks he's going to get what he has been convinced he wants. That means he has to trust Kimmy. But can he?

L_S87

Yes, but... I feel like this is a great exposition on someone talking themselves into (deluding really) why something that was horrific and awful really wasn't that bad because that person loves them, so it's okay. From the outside, it feels like Kimmy should have to do more than she's done, but this chapter shows Josh convincing himself that she's done enough, so why not let her have her way. Because he wants what she's offering. The real question becomes, how do you trust someone that is capable of doing what she did, yet now insists she's not that person, and it's all for Josh. He wants to believe, so he does. Kimmy's very good with the act of saying he's not ready, showing she values him more than herself, while giving Josh enough leeway to give her exactly what she wants.

Jim

Sorry to repeat myself but PLEASE don’t let this end. It’s brilliant. There’s so much more to discover about this couple.

Chris K

Fair enough! Forgotten?

Bill F Protagoras

Naaah! I believe retconning is a discomfiting entropic fact of life as much as fiction... if there's a difference between the two.

Chris K

That's what I was going for! I'm pretty sure 7 of these books got retconned right out the window though.

Bill F Protagoras

See... it's not 'all' about Kimmy getting her way, every word of those 14 chapters pulls its weight... contributing to the amusing irony of your impish mockery!

Chris K

Meanwhile, the lady wife down the hallway grows impatient waiting for the little guy to squirt...as does Kimmy. C'mon Josh, just like it already! Everyone has somebody to do.

Bill F Protagoras

"There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so” Witter witter witter!

Bill F Protagoras

“—his little dick poked a tent-pole in the fabric. God, Josh is such a horny devil." The Devlin unintentionally ascribes shamanic prowess to Josh's modest phallus in this allegory of transubstantial Alchemy, just as in the previous quote he dimwittedly encourages Kimmy to expose him as a smug dolt... A thick thick thickie!

Bill F Protagoras

"Make a circle, Kimmy, show him how thick I am.”

Kat

It feels like Josh is coming to terms with himself, his true self, and he’s okay with it. Along with that comes forgiveness for Kimmy, and an acceptance for what she did. I think the title of the chapter means (I know it’s the title of a book) the coming together of two opposite things, like Josh accepting his kinks without shame and humiliation. He’s turned on by his bully, and by Kimmy’s badness, but instead of fighting it, he’s accepting it and enjoying it. A sort of fitting end to the story. He can have both, his kinks and a wife who entertains them.

JL23

Yeah, that seems to definitely be the case.

Kat

Josh is heading for the Devlin replica.

JL23

Given the subject matter, I hesitate using the word "sweet" to describe anything. But this felt sweet to me, and not just the moment Josh described as sweet, but the entire chapter. They're both communicating what they're comfortable with clearly, they're both showing unity and teamwork in learning what the other wants and can handle, and they're both becoming excited by seeing the other get excited. It's actually sweet. It only took 14 books and a couple hundred chapters lol. But maybe they're finally there.

Chris K

I guess Josh is going for the big dildo?... I hope not, this whole story is Kimmy getting her way, which is really boring in retrospect, I hope something shocking and different happens to switch it up.


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