Yannick Trapman-O'Brien
patreon
November Highlight - “Kind of like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre”
🕑 Added 2021-11-19 23:06:28 +0000 UTC[Don't hit play yet - I'll tell you when]
TIME. IS. PASSING.
Which is what my brain screams every time I begin to type the sentence “November’s almost halfway done!” This Month, I’m revisiting one of my favorite interviews, done back in 2016 for my “True Love Story Library” project (click the link for an overview, if you’re not familiar). Much like the first Archive Highlight, we’ll be listening along with the transcript, and pausing every now and then to reflect. What do two 13-year-olds have to say on the subject of True Love?
Read on to find out!
It’s the end of October, the middle of the day, and the bottom of Union Square in New York City. I’m working with a colleague to collect and trade Love Stories for the “True Love Story Library,” a project of the Institute for Internal Certainty, which is only mostly fictional. Essentially, anyone wanting to check a story out of the library has to submit one first - and all participants are invited to complete an “author interview” after writing their story.
I’ve never made children’s theater. This is not to say I don’t like it or respect it; in fact, I do both to such a degree that many of my friends could gripe to you about all the times I dragged them across town to see some high-brow puppet or clown show in an audience full of screaming kids. I take an active interest in the kinds of stories we choose to tell young people, and I have a morbid fascination for the particular kind of accountability a throng of children creates: kids aren’t polite audiences. When it’s funny they laugh, and when it isn’t they don’t—they may even groan, or fall asleep. They yawn, they squirm, they lose interest fast. To perform for children is to receive instant feedback, to be graded without a curve. They are a model for the kind of behavior I’d love to see from participants in my exchanges — and the idea of facing down more than one of them at a time terrifies me.
Which is why I felt a twinge of uncertainty on that Autumn day in 2016 when two plucky middle school students made a bee-line for my “True Love Library” sign and promptly offered to author a story. Luckily, they brought professionalism and confidence enough for all of us, and proved to be excellent interviewees (and a fairly generous audience).
The “True Love Stories” collected in this project are interesting to me, but I found their most useful function was to create a setting in which I can ask participants to really drill down into the assumptions, associations and aspirations they hold around Love. else and stella [sic] were a great case study for this, and ended up representing both sides of one of my favorite tricky distinctions: is Love a noun, or a verb? And whichever it is, what do we do about that?
Here are some excerpts from the conversation, both from the transcript and the interview audio, which you can find above, or linked here. We pick up right after they’ve finished writing their True Love Story:
Research Associates Notes:
1. Overlapping speech is marked like //this//, and — indicates interruptions.
2. Notations, the inclusion of in/exhalations, and even the placement of punctuations (like, commas, for instance) are intended less to capture and express the meanings articulated than to simply document the sounds and flow of speech. The I.I.C. does not currently employ any mind-readers*, and so as a policy we try to avoid guessing at the inner life and intents of participating authors. Instead, we just write down what we hear, as specifically as we can.
3. While I have done my best to keep straight who is elsie and who is stella in the recording, it is possible that some of the following statements have been misattributed. elsie, stella, you both speak quickly, and sometimes it was hard to tell who is who. I know you are different people, I promise, and if you ever read this and find mistakes, let me know and I promise to fix it.
4. Capitalization: “elsie and stella” did not capitalize their names in writing, and I have thus followed their lead.
*If you are reading this and are a currently un/under-employed telepath, please contact us post-haste. We have exciting positions to offer you, with admittedly low pay but an abundance of light refreshments.
- - -
[Hit play]
Yannick: Awesome. Cool. So. Uh, how was writing that?
stella: It was very fun.
elsie: It was really fun. stella and I, we have like, creative ... minds or whatever, so, it was really easy like creating this // and we got
s: //it sort of just flew together// naturally
e: //yeah yeah yeah. We work really well together naturally.
Y: Is it an easy topic to write about?
s: Well, I think we sort of .. well I don’t have much experience on this topic.
e: Me neither. I mean like, if I have an idea, I just write about it. But like writing love stories, it’s like really fun yeah like, I think-I think I’m pretty good at writing love stories.
s: Yeah!
Y: What makes-what makes a good love story? How do you write a good one?
e: Um—
s: —well—
e: //So what makes a good love story is a tragedy.
s: //Yes!//
e: //Um, most love stories end with a tragedy—
s: —because it brings them closer together.
e: It brings them closer together, um, if one of them dies that’s quite unfortunate but it leaves the reader—or the watcher if it’s a movie—it leaves them with, um, like this feeling like “oh my god that was so good, and so intense,” so like a good love story always has to include a tragedy.
s: Yeah.
Y: So it sounds like a good love story is not necessarily good for the participants.
s: Yeaah//
e: //yeah//. Most characters end up dying in love stories.
s: Yeah
e: “The Notebook,” “Titanic,”—
s: —everything.
e: Everything, pretty much.
Y: “Romeo and Juliet” ’s kind of like a //Texas Chainsaw Massacre—
e: //Oh yeah//
s: //Definitely//
Y: //yeah//
s: //definitely//
e: //yeah.
Y: Why do you like that? What’s—
e: I think it’s just//
s: //it’s thrilling
e: It’s thrilling and it’s like, the—the climatic events that lead up to like, um, as an example like when Romeo and Juliet made like a suicide pact, like // that was really
s: //oh my god that was awesome//
e: //that was ver— (tsk) I wouldn’t, say suicide is awesome, but —
s: No! But like—
e: the events //leading up to it, like, their love—
s: //their love was so strong//
e: —like the the love sparks or whatever, they were so strong they felt the need to like, … I have no idea. Like, they were pretty dumb. But, ..
Y: So, so we - so we have a good sense of what is a good love story ... for watching. But what would be a good love story to be a participant in?
E+s: Aaaaah
e: Ummmm
s: Probably not a tragedy if you really like this person // but, you know
e: //not a tragedy// I mean I wouldn’t —
Y: If you kind of like the person //then maybe a tragedy would be okay?//
s: //Yeah//
e: //If you//
s: Yeah.
Y: Yeah.
e: Yeah, //but like—//
Y: //okay (laughing) //
e: —if you’re like, like usually like—“The Fault in Our Stars” //in a— as an example//
s: //oh yes!//
e: —like //both of them, like//
s: //I cried so hard//
e: // every love story, every single love story involves a tragedy—like if a-if people live happily ever after in a love story it’s not a good love story, // (inhale) so//
s: // yeah// Like Disney movies—like I love Disney movies, but like,—
e: They’re very—you—it’s so predictable. It’s very predictable. So you have to //include//
s: // a good love story has to be unpredictable.
e: Yeah, exactly.
Y: So, uh, … we-we have a sense of like what are the good love stories and what are the love stories that are out there in the world. Do you feel like those love stories prepare you to be in love?
s: Oh no! //No//
e: // nah, they kind of give us a false sense of security—
s: //Yes!//
e: —like love is that easy to accomplish. (inhale) But really, (inhale) what if you love someone and someone-and that someone doesn’t love you back? Try again next time. Love it doesn’t happen on the first try, I can guarantee that. (inhale) Love in movies is, //unrealistic from love in real life//
s: //yeah//
e: unless you live this perfect life as a fairy princess, (inhale) and you are destined to be with the prince or whatever. (inhale) Like, that’s not-that’s just not realistic. Love is, messy, and it doesn’t usually work out, (inhale) and it really sucks being in love with someone if they don’t love you back.
s: //Yeah.//
Y: //Have you been in love?
e: No, I’m 13, so, probably not.
s: Yeah.
[Hit pause]
Neither elsie nor stella felt particularly limited by this admitted lack of first-hand knowledge—
e: //Well I-I’ve read about it and I’ve read//
s: //yeah//
e: // I— not just books, like not just romance novels. Um, I’ve read the science aspect of love and it’s a lot different then having a crush.
—and together we boldy attempted to untangle the differences between a crush and love, feelings and a chemical reaction. But I appreciated their openness and acknowledgement about ways that our favorite Love Stories aren’t just unrealistic; their undesirable. In life we may want relationships that are a smooth ride, but the Love Stories we adore are 10-car pileups. Why do we love Love most when it’s a blood bath?
[Hit play]
Y: Uh, what about True Love?
e: True Love? Girl, that doesn’t exist.
Y: Yeah?
e: True Love does not exist.
Y: How do you know?
e: I mean, I don’t believe in the aspect of like the concept of soulmates because there are so many people in the world, and what if you’re with your soulmate and they turn out to not be your soulmate? Like, (inhale) they could cheat on you, or they could die, and you’re like “wait I didn’t like them after all, I’m kinda glad they’re dead”— (inhale) besides the point—umm ... (tsk) but, True Love it just doesn’t exist.
Y: //So//
s: //Well, I think you can look someone - at someone and like, get to know them, be like “this was meant to be. I was”—Like serendipity, like, you were supposed to meet this person, at this time, and things were supposed to work out, just for love.
e: I never think things are supposed to be predicted, I don’t think, that things are gonna end up (inhale) .. I don’t think—True Love just doesn’t exist. Life is unpredictable. And, True Love? (tsk) Nope.
#00:06:57-1#
Y: Well let’s-let’s look at both of those answers then. So uh, if-if there is no predestined love, then, how do you choose?
e: … … what do you mean by “how do you choose?”
Y: If there’s no one soul mate one right answer …?
e: //I mean, you have to—//
s: //Instinct?//
e: Instinct. You have to try a lot of stuff before you realize you know this is what I’m comfortable with. Um, it’s about being comfortable with stuff and it’s about finding your place. It’s not True Love it’s about finding your place in the love spectrum.
#00:07:32-1#
Y: What do you mean by “love spectrum”?
e: Like, … as an example like what I said before, like you could have a high school boyfriend, you think “oh, this is it,” and then, he breaks up with you at prom. (inhale) And, you’re like “well that isn’t true,” When you’re in college you experiment, and you .. (inhale) say “oh, I think I’m gay.” And then you like date someone of the same sex and then you’re like “wait no I’m not gay never mind scrap that.” //um//
s: // (laugh)
e: (tsk) and … it’s just, you could go through five or one or no boyfriends or girlfriends at all, but in the end, … it’s just, it just doesn’t really—it just—love is unpredictable. It just doesn’t—I have no idea what I’m saying. Love is just unpredictable.
Y: Alright.
e: (inhale)
Y: (to stella) And for you, I’d say, if there is a predestined meant-to-be, uh, what do you do while you’re waiting for that to show up?
s: Well, like you can experiment and see, and then, once you get an idea of what you like, you can start, like, searching I guess? And then—because like… you might think it’s True Love, like you’re supposed to meet this person, (inhale) like, a high school boyfriend or something, and then you think it’s True Love, and then it’s not. And then, —let’s say like, you’re really sad, but then, one of your friends helps you like, become happy again, and then you end up falling in love with that person. Like, it’s all meant to be together.
[Hit pause]
I am a huge fan of the way that elsie and stella can say “I have no idea what I’m saying” in one breath and give a very detailed, specific sequence of possible events in the other. It feels deeply human to me to simultaneously feel entirely uncertain and yet to hold hyper-specific narratives of what may be. And for two people who by their own admission have no first-hand experience, listening to them unpack their received knowledge felt a lot like tuning into the narratives we all carry around like second-hand smoke in our lungs; whether we believe them or not.
[Hit play]
Y: Okay. Uh, last question that we ever ask. Who are you?
s: I’m stella.
e: I’m elsie.
s: … … … is that it?
e: Is-is that it?
s: yeah
Y: If you want it to be.
e: Hmm. … … … (tsk) who are—like the question “who are you?”
Y: It’s //whatever you want to say//
e: //who are you//
s: //we’re middle school students.
e: Middle school is hell.
s: Yeah.
Y: Shouldn’t you be … in school right now?
e: I uh // half-day//
s: //school just ended//
e: // half-day.
Y: Okay. // Okay, we’ll take your word for it//
[END]
Fortunately for everyone involved, I’m not in the business of enforcing truancy. Instead, I’m in the business of inviting reflection, and collecting stories. Part one, check.
Part two?
I never expected to see what I saw at the dog run that day. There she was, chasing her fluffy white tail. My tongue wagged as I basked in the presence of her beauty. I did what a dog would do - I sniffed her butt. It smelled like lavender. She turned. When she turned around and as our eyes met, sparks flew. I knew it’d be fate. We played and pranced the afternoon away. Soon enough, my owner said it was time to leave the dog run. I turned, and we shared our first kiss. I was so happy, I felt like I could fly. And that was the last time I ever saw my true love.
Check.
Sparks, strong emotions, and a healthy dose of tragedy?
Check, check, and check.
~
And that’s the November Highlight! I try to vary these Archive Highlights between sharing writing and analysis about my work and stepping aside for the most part to let content speak for itself. Which Highlights have you enjoyed? What do you want more of? Let me know in the comments!
(or just stick around until next month, for something entirely different).
Until then — thanks again for your support.
- Yannick
Comments
Elaine
Oh, wow, I adore this! The way those teens were willing to dive in and be vulnerable and also deeply convinced...just beautiful!
