Rex Krueger patreon

Early Access Video: Learning to Crosscut

🕑 Added 2021-05-15 11:01:01 +0000 UTC

Comments

Robert Schalk

Having started my beginner journey over COVID (been wanting to start for years, but didn't have a space) this would have been super helpful. One thing I would add that's probably second nature to experienced folks that has helped in recent months is, pick a face side and make as many of your measurements as possible from that side. Then your lines match up better for your square cuts.

Rex Krueger

I completely agree that there are many ways to skin this cat. The techniques i showed here are easy to learn and set a good foundation for later developing your own methods.

Mark Diaz

Job well done! Perhaps I'm strange, and for many things I do exactly the opposite of what right handed folks might. I clamp my board on the left side of the bench so no awkward reach over to support the offcut. Not related, but I was taught to start the cut with a push stroke using a Western saw - idea being (if sharp) better control over the initial cut.

Jason Blank

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Sudden Rain

Need more videos for true begginers!

KingQueso

Nate mentions that your kerf is deeper. I think what is actually happening is the "triangle" that you make has a more acute angle.

Ragnhild

I like to place the pencil (or other marking tool) on the mark first, and then put the square next to it, so that I know I’m drawing the line right on the mark.

Ragnhild

When cutting on the low bench, I recommend making the plumb line on the far side, because that’s where you can see it. It also helps you establish the cut angle right from the beginning.

Bayard

I love the True Beginner series! So sorry to hear Nate was ill, and glad to know he's doing better. :)

Michael Carman

Concurred on that request! It's a seemingly simple thing that is...not very easy!

Paul Howard

I had no idea about the plumb mark. Thanks for doing a video with a newbie so we all caught that. Where do you go on the internet for tips about Japanese saws? I only have a J-saw and I'm planning to build a low Roman bench.

Stuart

When marking you might demonstrate various levels of precision i.e. using a pencil like you did vs using a knife. I have seen some where they put the knife in the divot and use that to locate the square instead of just lining it up visually.

Eloque

Really like this type of video. I am a beginner and this stuff helps, not so much for sawing in my case, that my dad taught me. But, the terminology in English, that alone is worth watching for. Rex, I guess you have a fair number of non native English speakers, I always appreciate you pointing and naming stuff. It helps when looking for further information or asking questions on the forum. Do a true beginner on joining perhaps? I have been having issues trying to get a 5x5x70 cm pair of beams planed and joined, so it's an entirely self-serving request to be honest.

Tsani Rósenov Sábev

It is entirely possible that I overthink the geometry of what I'm doing when in the shop.

Aaron Wasielewski

Great video as always! You’re probably ahead of my thoughts on this, but the next beginner technique should be ripping. Thank you again!

mike willoughby

Although Rex does a TERRIFIC job at explaining in simple steps, having an inexperienced person do work helps. Nate finds those Rex-acquired-yesrs-ago-thus-invisible skills, which helps bring them out for newbies to aqcuire. Keep doing this type of video.

Rex Krueger

Glad we could help! Wish we had done it earlier!

Rex Krueger

Yes; quite a bit. More TPI = slower cut but better finish. Fewer TPI = faster, but rougher.

Rex Krueger

That's not nitpicky. Try telling India that covid is over. I really did over-state that one. It's over for ME, but not for many other people. As to the japanese saws....I'm just not so good with those. I can use them, but I don't feel nearly as in-control. Hopefully, I can study these tools more in the future.

Rex Krueger

Man, that's a REALLY good point. I do that without even thinking.

Rex Krueger

Welcome! We're glad to have you.

Rex Krueger

Ah! I see.

Rex Krueger

I think Tsani just has an advanced vocabulary for describing a simple process. I had to read it twice, but it made sense.

Mark Lies

Thank you for the help Martin Hartley. Gonna take a closer look at that one!

Mark Lies

Thank you Rex, I went to their website after I watched your video and tried to figure out which one you were using in the video, but wasn't 100 percent which one you chose. Of the two I thought it might be I didn't find the language that identified it as resharpenable.. Anyway, long story short, @Martin Hartley identified the model number from your video, so I think I might pick one up. Thanks for all of your help again!

Jeanine Hoffman

Wow! How I wish past me had watched this video...just two weeks ago. I made some cuts this week that should have left me with five square and even plywood boards. Instead, three different heights even though the measurements were the same.. also, not squared. I know what I did now was I didn’t strike the line on the side. I also should have cut in a different order so that I did shorter cross cuts. Thanks for this Rex and Nate!

Bill Finizia

I am rather new to hand tool woodworking and wonder whether “teeth per inch” matter for hand saws.

Kenneth Carlile

Excellent video! I think you already have one with you, but can you do one of these with a Japanese saw? One other nitpicky thing... would that it were true that covid is over...

CrispnCrunch

Hey Rex - Just a quick thing I saw during this video that would also be really good for another beginner video - how to make lines using a square. One thing that you did without even realising, when marking the second (vertical) line was to move the square up to the top line and then slightly back (to compensate for the width of the pencil). This would be a good thing to call out explicitly (as many 'tubers do this without realising/mentioning it. In fact a video about the different types of square would be useful - Speed, Combination, T, Try, other... and which one should be your first/second purchase... Love your work...

Matt Evans-Koch

Welcome back Nate. Good video and a good reminder of technique for those of us that have spent years using power saws and are getting back into hand sawing. Thank you Rex for the instruction and Nate for demonstrating and editing. Take care both of you.

Wayne

Yup that would be me grey hair (what’s left) and beard to match plus a selection of handsaws

John Laudun

Sorry, what I meant to note was which face was the one you wanted to show. Some new workers may not necessarily know which face to have up.

Michael Ross

I keep a hardened saw in the back of my car for when I I shop for lumber, but don't have a truck. I can get a 9 foot board in my Scion xB without sticking out a window. I also pull it out at the nursery where I work in lieu of getting am extension cord, saw horses and a circular saw. For making bridle joints and tenons in 4x4 treated wood - it is far better to use the hand saw than a circular saw. Now I do get funny looks from people with framing experience who haven't a clue about hand tools, but a hard point saw is really fast and accurate in the right situation. I bet most of the people who keep one around are gray haired.

Kevin S Thomas

Good refresher, Thanks!

Dan Weiss

I'm new to your patreon.... very nice tutorial. Great production value too

Michael Ross

Another excellent production!!!

Michael Ross

Lot's of people use pens. Rob Cosman likes a red ball point. or rollerball. The Japanese have their way as Rex said. I find that I depend on really good lighting. I recently got an LED ring lamp with a magnifier, articulated. It helps me when nothing else will do. This winter I have been doing a number of small dovetails in thin wood ( t<3/8" ). I really need no shadows to do it well.

Michael Ross

Good smart comment. But, it depends a little on the handle of the saw. I think Paul Sellers taught me to feel the weight on the outer/underside of my hand - this is just enough to lighten the contact and keep the start from grabbing.

Stuart

I understand and am okay with either approach. You could also punt and say waste side or keep side or just add "my" in front of the left/rights. Also, a quick shot showing the "cut triangle" part of the cut with the same camera angle of where you showed the second pencil line would make that part a bit more clear. But both of these are nits and being pedantic is what I do for a living so I defer to the teacher to do what they think is best. I should also mention that I enjoyed the video and probably more importantly learned something.

Sean O'Neill

Good point, Thomas. For a rip cut, you want about a 60 degree angle, so the chisel action of the teeth can cut down through the grain. Heck, even the vertical straight up cut for a rip is a well known technique. But for a crosscut, a 45 degree angle is better for the knife action of cutting those fibers across the grain. Not that we want to get out our bevel gauges and check out saws against them, but the geometry of the teeth is at its optimum with this in mind, especially since crosscut teeth are sharpened with that more relaxed rake versus the rip saws with no rake.

Martin Hartley

Bahco PC22FILEU7 - this one is a resharpenable saw and definitely not a hard point. Spear & Jackson also do traditional skew-back saws. Those are cross-cut only (can be resharpened to rip cut quite easily) but also suffer from the same problems as their Tenon saws. Too much set, and handle feels like crap, despite being solid beech.

Rex Krueger

These are pretty shiny, so I think that trick will work.

Rex Krueger

A fair point; the face is always the wide one. The edge is narrow.

Rex Krueger

Thomas: with respect, do you think you could be just a little more diplomatic in your comments towards other Patrons? You can say anything you want to me, but we're trying for a calm environment around here. For the record, Mark was pretty correct; those saws are correctly called "Job Site" (and someone must use them since they sure sell a lot of them). The teeth are hardened (although not exactly case-hardened) and that is generally the reason they are disposable, not their poor quality. Some of them cut very well.

Rex Krueger

Mark, I know that this saw can be resharpened because (as you point out) it lacks the black coloring around the teeth. Also, Bahco specifically markets and sells this saw as sharpenable.

Rex Krueger

Well, yeah, since those are the directions you're going to need when you're behind the saw yourself. It seems to me like I should give directions from the user's point of view, but I'm flexible on that.

Rex Krueger

I have no idea, but I'll ask Nate!

Fred Gosbee

When cutting on the low bench you can keep the saw plumb by watching the reflection of the wood in the saw blade. When you are cross cutting a square line the edge of the board will appear straight when the blade is plumb. If it's out of plumb the edge of the board will appear to have a kink. (Of course this requires a saw blade with a polished finish!)

Vasileios

Great video as always. Keep it up!

John Morrison

Nicely done. Think "sawing without sawing" when you start a cut. Gentle gliding helps establish the cut line. The counterintuitive thing that beginners need to understand bis that sawing is not about applying downward pressure. It's about gliding a sharp saw across wood. Focus is on watching what you are doing, not applying force. Try this with a decent quality Ryoba saw. It will sing to you when you're doing it right. You'll hear Rex's tool angels

John Laudun

Separate note: I like the chemistry between you two.

John Laudun

I'll add one thing that maybe you should have mentioned (or emphasized a bit more): which side up? You say "face" in your first example cut, but you don't mention it again.

Thomas Strike

Dido, and this is coming from a retired Broadcast Engineer who has worked in post production and news editing.

Thomas Strike

Are we being facetious? These saws you are speaking of are throw - away because they are cheap and not worth re-sharpening. Besides, I can't believe that you'd find a job site that the carpenters aren't using a circular saw and a portable table saw.

Russell Gough

Very, very well done! I always say it, but it’s so true: you’re an excellent teacher, Rex. And kudos to Nate for being a great student AND editor. This video was particularly well-edited.

Thomas Strike

One thing that you didn't comment on is when Nate was cutting on the saw bench, he completed his cut with an excessive downward angle. At this angle, most of your force is downward and subjects the fibers to tear out. Perhaps, a much more shallow angle putting force across the cut laterally for the final strokes to minimize tear-out. When I was a kid back in the 50's, my dad didn't have a circular saw so all the cutting he did was with really good hand saws. This is something I picked up on while playing around in his shop.

Mark Lies

I thought all of the cheap jobsite saws have case hardened tips that prevent resharpening, which basically means they are disposable. How do you determine that the Bahco hand saw in this video can be resharpened? Or, do you just cut the hardened teeth off completely when they become too dull and create your own teeth from the newly created straight edge?

Stuart

Hmm, might point out that when you use left/right it is from Rex's point of view not the viewer.

Pierre-Olivier Fineltin

Great video but... when, Rex, you do the kerf at the end of the bench, the sound is out of synchro: I laughed thinking that your editor, focused on the cross cut, missed the audio cut. No big deal, edition is ruled by Murphy's law. ;-)

Midwestern Scout

I think you're needlessly over complicating a relatively simple process.

Hansenomics

It’s nice to see you and Nate back in the shop cutting up. Your videos generally are a cut above the rest but after I saw the final cut I thought it would be nice, in the style of a music video, to have Nate in the back ground cutting a rug.

Rick Prosser

The hardest thing for me to learn was that more downward pressure and pushing harder is not better.

Sean O'Neill

Very informative. I like when you do these videos with Nate. I think the center of gravity over the work on a saw bench is a big help to getting those cuts square and plumb. Looking forward to your next video, Rex. Thank you again!

Bradley Barth

Great Video. One thing I noticed in the last few videos there is no captions option. That is very helpful for me as a hard-of-hearing person. Any ideas why captions are not available in the videos anymore?

Rex Krueger

I think we have these in a playlist, but I'll double-check. If you find pencil hard to see, I highly recommend Japanese marking techniques. They use ink and a special bamboo brush. I think you'll find it very easy to see.

Geoffrey Wilson

Relaxing the hand holding the saw you that I wasn't gripping so hard helped me a lot.

Thomas Hverring

Excellent video! Looking forward to the ripper!

Philip Lodine

Very useful video! Good advice to avoid pushing downward on the work — that extra force is what will tend to make the saw jump out of the kerf. As the saying goes, let the tool do the work.

Sean McGown

Love it! You guys do great work together onscreen.

Jim Porter

Very helpful. Thanks! Looking forward to the building of the low saw bench.

Paul Ladd

I have not watched the video yet. I would like to make a request please. Can the basics videos or beginner videos be placed in their own folder or playlist please? One stop shop that may help us newbies to focus on beginner concepts only. On to the video. .....ok, while I am watching the video a question is forming in my head. Being visually impaired I need a very dark line, can I use a fine tip sharpee? Next, often times I can not see the pencil line, is there a guide or a jig that can be used to keep the saw blade on its correct path. I know they have a device for circular saws but what about a hand saw? Just added info here, I have a 12x12 room and my workbench is a Black & Decker WorkMate 425.

Daniel Bohrer

That was a very good video (and funny too, it seemed very natural)! I love the use of a beginner, like last time 😁 Just a quick tip I think you could also have mentioned: the saw cut is easier to start (and probably also to finish) when you lift the saw a bit instead of letting its full weight engage with the fibers – apparently lifting the saw seems so unintuitive that we don't do it automatically, and I always have to remind myself about it, and others I've taught so far. Now I'm very looking forward to that saw bench video, I still need my own!

Thomas Hverring

I usually end up in another dimension altogether! :^)

Tsani Rósenov Sábev

Crosscutting is about dimensional travel through a board: You start your cut at a point (0th dimension), progress to a line, and then another line (1st dimension), you join the ends of those lines creating your first triangle (the simplest form of a plane in the 2nd dimension), and then you finish your cut. Jumping ahead is pointless. Cutting a line without first making a point is possible, but slower.