Fanu/FatGyver
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Why should you limit your master?
🕑 Added 2022-11-06 08:49:37 +0000 UTCI got this question:
"Would there be any benefit to temporarily putting a limiter on the master in order to highlight any issues in the mix (I mean would it highlight anything too loud in the mix or annoying frequencies)?"
This is a good question, and I'm happy to answer this. Even if you're not that interested in mastering, this can be useful, because it can kind of give you some feedback on your mix.
First, quickly in a nutshell about what a limiter (also known as maximizer) does: it removes peaks from your signal. This allows you to make the signal louder, because after the peak removal, the signal can be normalized louder, i.e., its level can be raised without peaks going over the ceiling, which'd cause the signal to distort.
So as for the original question then!
It can be good practice to try and limit your master so that it's as loud as your chosen reference songs.
Pick some songs that sound good and are as loud as you prefer. Then use the limiter to raise the loudness where it matches with that of the reference song(s).
Once it's loud enough for you, listen to the signal:
• Is it distorting?
If it is, some of these may apply:
-you're trying to to go too loud,
-you'd need another limiter for extra help (see bottom of post),
-there's too much bass,
-the low-mids are too chunky,
-something in the signal is too loud, e.g., some sound that occurs every now and then plays too loud (if it only happens every now and then)
-the kick may be too long and it overlaps with bass (keep your kicks as short as possible: long bassy tails often cause trouble with limiting).
TIP: some limiters such as Invisible Limiter have a Unity Gain feature, which doesn't raise the level when limiting, so you can try and push it till you hear the sound starts to get a bit too distorted – then you just dial it back a bit, and that's prob as much limiting that limiter can do. When you disable Unity Gain, the signal gets loud.
• Is it softening the signal?
In some cases, when a limiter is pushed too much or if it's kind of overworked, it gets soft and the drums can get a bit mushy. This is why always use two limiters or the help of a clipper (only when going rrrreally loud though…a clipper can easily cause extra harm and loss of dynamics).
Also sometimes if the bass does some sudden level jumps, this may make the limiter act a bit soft. Try two limiters, or tame those jumps in the mix (e.g., every now and then I may use a very slight limiter or compressor on the bass track in mixing) OR use a multiband compressor or such to tame that jump.
Also, if your mix is really transient-heavy, you may want to soften that a bit: just don't make the transients so sharp, use oekSound Spiff to make them a bit rounder, or use a clipper before limiter to tame the transients a bit.
BTW, do check out my video on clipper vs limiter differences!
FWIW, I seldom use a clipper.
So in a nutshell, when you use a limiter (and especially two) to make your song as loud as good commercial masters, and if it distorts or the sound breaks, the mix will need some work. So in this way, limiting your master gives you some feedback on your mix.
Lastly, two VERY important points!
1) when you want to do really good limiting, I advise you to use two limiters to share the heavy lifting, and you'll get a much cleaner result than with just one. There may be cases with some less loud styles where one limiter is fine, but with things like DNB etc., two limiters are needed.
2) DAW limiters cannot handle good master limiting. Period. Pretty much any DAW limiter will make the master soft or mushy (while they're ok for some peaks on tracks in mixing, should you care about that).
For good limiting, you'll need a good third party one (Izotope Ozone Maximizer, AOM Invisible Limiter, and DMGaudio Limitless are some I can recommend)
Any Qs? Hit me up!
🥁 PS: I've been creating some drumsounds, and will link you to some SOON! 🥁
Comments
Janne Hatula
I didn’t even know PP had a limiter. Ableton Limiter is totally worthless for *master* limiting (kills transients) but nice for taming some peaks on tracks.
Lucca Jeanne
only other limiter I have is phase plant, is this still worth using over Ableton stock?
Darren Stratton
Brill, thanks boss!
Janne Hatula
Nailing a mix is a huuuuuuge topic. Every producer has different shortcomings, and they vary a lot between individuals. It's sooo much easier for me to tell you what's wrong with your mix (and usually that wont take me a long time) than it is to teach that to everyone in general. These posts may help with bass, so pls check: • https://www.patreon.com/posts/64884297 • https://www.patreon.com/posts/65240546 I've also done a topic on most common mix issues: • https://www.patreon.com/posts/66372311
Darren Stratton
I hear you man, thank you! One thing I struggle with and am trying to work on is mix levels and getting my bass about right, which is a real art. Would be amazing if you could do a session on tryin to nail the mix at some point this year, to share tips and how to avoid common errors. You'll then be positively contributing to the World of mastering engineers and will hopefully get a few less tracks that need to go straight back for adjustment, haha! Its quite a bit suject, so maybe better suited to a mentor/1-2-1 session. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who would love to learn from you in this area though. :)
Janne Hatula
"my mix levels are better when I have some limiting on my master" if your limiter makes the levels "better", it may be that your mix isn't tight enough without the limiter, and it "fixes" the things that are too loud. remember, you can also always bring a reference song down for A/B instead of limiting your own song. AOM Invisible Limiter is an absolutely great limiter. I dont use Limitless super often, but I'll pull it out if i'm getting a bit of master distortion and nothing else seems to fix it; there's def been times when adding just a little bit of dynamic action to Limitless has been just the trick. so I def have uses for both myself. sometimes i uses combos of different limiters; sometimes one limiter will perform better than some other in a certain scenario, and some other time it'll be another one.
Darren Stratton
Question about this bud - I have the DMG suite, so use Limitless a bit, somtimes as you mentioned more for some colour and distortion on basses. Mastering is beyond me just now, so I'll get an expert to do that for me. Differing schools of thought, but I do find whilst I'm learning, my mix levels are better when I have some limiting on my master. May be nothing more than it helps me when A-B' ing the track. As I seem to collect plugins I may use little as a bit of an addiction/vice (hey we are all guilty right), should I stick with what I have, or is AOM Invisible Limiter G3 worth a shout? I like how it is nice and clean and sounds a touch more open and doesnt narrow the master. Given I'll ulitmately give the stems over for mastering, is AOM G3 still a good buy, to be used on busses, the demo sounded lovely on a bass the other day? Really value your opinion here. BTW, Predominently working on DnB (Headz vibe) , as I know some limiters work better with different styles. Thanks!
Janne Hatula
That's actually a good idea!
Andrew Hollis
You could do a series of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing videos debunking some of these misconceptions :) for people like me
Janne Hatula
Yes, dynamic mix and headroom are not the same. You can have a lot of dynamics in the mix and it can be loud, and you can also have a lifeless, squashed mix that has a lot of headroom.
Andrew Hollis
That shows how little I understand. So the terms headroom and dynamic mix are not the same. I was under the impression you can't have one without the other and that if you get the mix wrong the limiter will only make things worse.
Janne Hatula
The headroom before the limiter plays no role.
Andrew Hollis
I suppose this is a follow-on question. I'm guessing make sure that your track has enough headroom before going anywhere near a limiter. I for instance run a third-party meter to and try and keep the main portion of the track around -12 rms peaks can go a little higher. Not sure if I'm killing the mix by doing that either as the levels are too low?
Janne Hatula
Haven't tried, so can't say! (the ones I mentioned are what I've used a lot, and hence I mentioned those)
Dave Recon
Thanks for this mate. Just wondered what your thoughts were on the Plugin Alliance True Peak Limiter?
