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Muay Thai Bones Podcast - #15 (Apple & Android) Fight Stacks, Heart Rate & Who Legends Respect, Covid-19 and the Future of Muay Thai, Buddhistic Yoniso (2 hrs, 54 min)

🕑 Added 2020-03-28 08:17:05 +0000 UTC

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Pop Praditbatuga

As a supplement to my previous long post, there is a good classic marketing book called “POSITIONING – The Battle for Your Mind, by Al Ries and Jack Trout.” Although analyzed in greater details in the book, “Positioning" is when a brand won its position in the customers' mind as "#1, #2, etc.”, and is subsequently allowed to carry a life of its own. For example, in my generation “Xerox” was used synonymously with “photocopy.” This is due to Xerox successfully "positioning” its place in the customers’ mind as the top photocopying-equipment company. It is then accepted by subsequent generation(s) without question until something else takes its place. After being “positioned” as the “Mecca of Muay Thai,” Lumpinee and Rajadamnern Stadium were able to continue with that prestige and carry on with or without some of the darker elements of society. The problem today is that the generation that bought into that “position" is now old, and the younger generation may already have something else in their mind as “Muay Thai."

Pop Praditbatuga

In furtherance of the discussion on the death of Muay Thai as we knew it, here’s my two-cent. You also briefly touched on the mafia-like influence on fights in those days. This is a long comment, but it follows from your podcast discussion, which I enjoyed. Topic of Discussion: Dark Side of Society's Influence on Golden Era Muay Thai and Why That Muay Thai May Be Dead Golden Era Muay Thai is often credited with having the best Muay Thai fighters, and the two stadiums where the fights took place had their legendary status further solidified during that time. Not often mentioned is the idea that two elements from the darker side of society may have contributed to this: (1) the godfathers' control of large promotions, and (2) gambling. Not many fighters would even talk about these elements in a positive light, and in fact there were definitive negative results from these elements. I’m not saying it was good for the fighters individually. I'm not saying it should be praised. Politically correct or not, I argue that it may just have created conditions conducive to producing the best fighters ever, as discussed hereinafter. THE GODFATHERS AND OTHER POWERFUL-NETWORK PROMOTERS First, the few godfathers controlled the biggest promotions. Regardless of how angelic the gyms and the fighters were, the promotions they fought in were fueled by “godfather money.” Through established powerful networks (or “ittipol"), which is common in Southeast Asia, they channeled their events into two main stadiums: Lumpinee Stadium and Rajadamnern Stadium. Each godfather wanted to have the best fighters under their promotion, and wanted the best fights under their promotions. This was important because the matches of the best versus the best were often centralized; thus, centralizing the championship. Furthermore, the promotions themselves were further followed and legitimized by having big-name fights. You have promoters like the notorious late Klaew Thanikul promote some of the biggest-name fights. I mean you can’t beat fights like “Dieselnoi vs. Samart.” Even non-godfather promotions like One Songchai relied on an established network with powerful people. When these big-name fights happen mainly at Lumpinee and Rajadamnern, two things happen. The best and the best-upcoming fighters knew exactly where to fight and who to fight. Gyms wanted to produce the best fighters for these big events, which were profitable for their fighters and the gym. When you have the best fighting the best in organized events, techniques get to an unbelievable level, and gyms pushed that. Furthermore, the fighters matter as much as the fight. You say “Lumpinee Champ,” and people knew who they were. They knew Coban, they knew Dieselnoi, they knew Samart, etc. Winning the championship in a pool like that was truly prestigious. In contrast, today’s entertainment Muay Thai promotes the fight more than the fighters. People leaving an event could barely tell you whom the fighters were. It’s usually the “Thai Guy” vs “The Guy from [a country other than Thailand].” They just knew the fights were fast-paced and action-packed. There are also so many organizations throughout the world today that it’s hard to tell who the best are. The champions are diluted throughout many organizations all over the place. In turn, the prestige is also diluted. We have no idea if the best will ever face the best. In the few events where the fighters are promoted in entertainment Muay Thai, such as in the event Thai Fight, the match-ups were not like Lumpinee of the past. It’s set to favor a certain outcome for ratings. We saw what it was like when a superstar like Saenchai used to fight Yodwicha and Namsaknoi at Lumpinee, and we see what it’s like when he fights in Thai Fight today (granted he is older now and is still beyond amazing). Just my point about how the opponents and techniques had to be at another level at Lumpinee, especially during the Golden Era. THE GAMBLERS Sitting at Lumpinee Stadium during the Golden Era, one could see a packed crowd with a large percentage of gamblers raising their hands to accept and offer different odds throughout the rounds. A big-time gambler is often an expert at detecting the fighters’ “Roop,” “Ning", “Oht-ton," “Fimeu," etc. They will often determine their odds from that detection. Odds can change from round to round, and sometimes a gambler can pick an underdog who will make a profitable comeback. Gambling is highly addictive. Cities like Las Vegas were raised on that premise. Lumpinee and Rajadamnern of the past were no exception. Big fights and big names drew big crowds of gamblers, which meant big profitable crowds in general. The Nak Muay-Lan ("or million-baht fighter”) and Nak Muay-San (or “hundred-thousand baht fighter”) earned a large part of their values from the crowds they drew. It’s a profitable cycle between the godfather-driven large promotions and the large crowds the promotions drew from the gamblers. Since gamblers were relatively knowledgeable audience, the “Roop" and "Fimeu" exhibited by Golden Era fighters were exceptional. And the promoters who always wanted the best under their promotion continuously drew match-ups that would entice these knowledgeable gambling-driven crowds. Many of these gamblers were ex-fighters themselves (some quite famous). In contrast, in today’s entertainment Muay Thai, where gambling is often not allowed due to political correctness, legal issues, etc., the crowds are less knowledgeable. “Roop” does not entertain them. They are entertained by action, action, action. Muay Bouk and Muay Mat takes the place of Muay Fimeu, Muay Toy Lang (“backward-moving Muay”), and Muay Khao (as clinching is often not understood by theses audience, and is therefore shortened in order to push faster punching and kicking action). Today’s Muay Thai relies on global ratings for profit. The goal is to entertain with fast action and have as many champions from as many countries as possible. Audiences love to watch champions from their country, which is not surprising. It’s a different formula than the Golden Era godfather-gambler days. For the abovementioned reasons, Golden Era Muay Thai may be dead.