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Muay Thai Bones Podcast #25 - Women In Lumpinee, Western Fighters & Customs of Authority, Gambling That Binds Community (2hrs, 54 min)
🕑 Added 2021-11-11 04:46:02 +0000 UTCThis is episode 25 of the Muay Thai Bones podcast it is a very special podcast. The topic of Women in Lumpinee has been such a huge one we wanted to wait to be able to talk about it lots and lots of depth. So we take a deep dive into this history changes time in Thailand's Muay Thai and women's fighting. Thank you for supporting the podcast!
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episode 25 - subjects and timestamps (subtract 20 seconds for the audio version)
1. MEGA SUBJECT: Women Fighting In Lumpinee and what it means (14:45) on video)
2. Growing Value of Western Fighters & Its Complications (1:47:34 on video)
3. The Loss & Meaning of Local Gambling & Local Champions
Reading Notes
These are things referenced in the podcast, sometimes even in passing. They are tangents you can go down, articles, videos, reference that we find interesting and lead to our discussion. They are the raw material behind some of our thoughts.
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There aren't a lot of reading notes this episode, but there are a few things we mention. If there is a reference of something you'd like follow up on tell us in comments and we'll edit it in.
1. MEGA SUBJECT- Women in Lumpinee
I've written several articles on women and Lumpinee over the years, you can find many of them here
Hippy tells the story of his first fight in Bangkok vs Chatchai - getting to Bangkok physically was a change of world
Namkabuan Interview - in this interview he told me about getting to Lumpinee
You can find the WBC Female Rankings here
You can find the WMO Female Rankings here
Kevin's article on the recent WBC World Title fight
Not only is the fight and the history of the fighters covered, the fight is put in the larger context of the WBC efforts and Lumpinee fights.
Kevin's article on the coming FIRST fight in Lumpinee and why it is important:
In 2018 I posted my 3 Muay Thai Life Goals. One of these was a Lumpinee Belt. Of all of these "impossible" goals, this one was probably the most unlikely, just because it seemed like women would never have the opportunity.
Talking to Stephan Fox. Stephen Fox and IFMA over 2 decades has been working to bring international values to the Muay Thai of Thailand in the hope of making it an Olympic Sport. Some of the values of the New Lumpinee inclusion are no doubt reflective of this work:
this comes out in my first interview with him, you can watch that here, followed up in my interview a couple of years later here.
Kevin talks about how the New Lumpinee approach may be in part inspired by JF stadium in Pattaya, which was created just for Chinese tourist audiences. You can see it in my 251st fight video
2. Growing Value of Western Fighters & Its Complications
my short article on FA Group's complaint about the movement of western sponsored fighters, and a call for regulation, read that here
Back in 2018 Emma of Under the Ropes and I had a podcast and our first episode was on the subject of "gym hopping" in Thailand:
you can read and watch it here. Our views have changed over time and through the experiences we've had since then, but its good history of the topic.
You can read Emma's original then controversial article here written way back in 2013.
We talk about the case of Tawanchai, who originally was Jatukam Petchrungruang. How contracts are purchased by big powerful gyms when young family style gyms produce top fighters. Here is Tawanchai when I knew him:
watch this quick technique video with him here
3. The Loss & Meaning of Local Gambling & Local Champions
Buffalo Girls, featuring Stamp as a fighting little girl:
watch it here - the trailer here
We bring up how Thai Nak Muay masculinity as that of the Monk are related. My article on some of this:
We talk about something Sifu McInnes shared, how at Sityodtong Gym in the Golden Age everyone would gamble together on the fights, watching one television:
This is our Library session with Sifu as reference. He tells some Golden Age stories at the end of this session:
watch and read about it here
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Muay Thai Bones Podcast #20 - 90 Min Edition: 15 Rules for Muay Thai, Building My Own Training
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Samson Isaan Library Coffee Podcast #6
Namsaknoi Library Coffee Podcast #5
Muay Thai Bones Interviews (iTunes) - When Muay Thai Meets Dance
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Napapol Giatsakchokchai Library Coffee Podcast (1 hr, 46 min)
Muay Thai Bones Podcast - #10 (for iTunes) Losing Sweetness, "Easy Fight" Sabotage (1 hr, 23 min)
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You can get the EARLY days of Muay Thai Bones episodes, before we started creating audio streams in this video Playlist:
The Muay Thai Bones episode videos here
Comments
Jen Vaughn
This was my very first Bones episode, discovering Sylvie after a decade long hiatus from muay thai in North America. As a female who dabbled in fighting in the early 2000s here, the Lumpinee rules about women definitely bothered me, but they were still so far away from my reality that I remained unaffected. I can only imagine how they weighed on Sylvie with the dedication, devotion, and participation in a sport that labelled her as lesser for such ridiculous reasons. This episode was fabulous and the knowledge, thought, and experience that went into being able to make it is impressive on multiple levels. I learned so much from this episode that I never would have picked up another way. It highlights for me some of the sad changes happening in the sport with the dilution of traditional muay thai as well as what a bittersweet victory the initial Lumpinee fights are for the women closest to it. Thank you both for your devotion not only to learning and understanding the sport and the culture but also for how you process and share the elements of it!!
olly
Hi Sylvie, Do you think you'll look at trying to get a session in with Lerdsila? Thanks for all the awesome content.
