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Chapter 908 Otherworldly
🕑 Added 2022-10-07 13:11:45 +0000 UTCNew chapter and more when ready :).
Chapter 908 Otherworldly
Night had fallen over the UK, streetlamps illuminating their surroundings.
Ilea wore a black turtleneck and a ski mask as Jennifer had suggested, both Cless and her mother in the same getup as they waited inside of a public garage near the prison.
“And you’re sure you’re up for this?” Jennifer asked.
Ilea looked at her and took in a deep breath. “Incredibly stressful, I won’t lie,” she said in the driest voice she could manage.
“You’re tough, I get it,” Jennifer retorted.
“You really don’t,” Ilea said and smiled.
“You really don’t,” Cless repeated and crossed her arms, rolling her eyes at her mother.
“I’ll have to think about the influence you have on my daughter.”
Cless refocused.
Ilea laughed. “I’ll go get him now. It’s about time?”
“One minute until guard change,” Jennifer said and soon started counting down the last twenty seconds.
Ilea checked her domain and teleported out into the sewers when Jennifer said one. Three more teleports and she reached the prison walls. A quick use of Fabric Alteration turned the three cameras away. Nobody was in the small yard. She teleported onto the basketball court and thought about throwing a few hoops. Checking for any interested eyes, she flew up to the indicated toilet and found Torben in her domain.
The man sat on his bed, reading in a book. He had short hair and looked to be in his late thirties. Broad shoulders and strong arms.
“Don’t freak out now,” Ilea sent straight into his mind.
His heartbeat shot up, his eyes going wide as he shut the book and tensed up.
“You’re freaking out,” she sent. “Calm down. Jennifer sent me. Cless is back too.”
His eyes narrowed as he slowed his breathing. Deliberate and calm.
“Awesome. Torben, right? You can talk back, use your mind.”
“Hello? I can?” he spoke, his voice deep.
“Yes. Now for this escape to look remotely reasonable, I need you to go to the toilet,” Ilea said.
He got up and called out to one of the few staff.
Ilea waited, keeping an eye on the security guards helpfully unaware of the camera angles. They were having a chat, the faint conversation she heard through the many walls suggested a football related topic.
“What do I do now?” Torben sent, standing in the toilet.
Ilea flew up to the small window and formed a few thin blades of volcanic glass. Cutting through the steel was simple. Doing so entirely without sound took a bit of patience. She was done in less than three seconds. “Now you jump out.”
She assumed he would hesitate at least, considering the toilet was on the second floor up. He might break a leg or two.
Torben didn’t hesitate.
He climbed up and squeezed through the window, let himself dangle down before he breathed in and let go. He landed on the soft patch of grass with a roll, though he grit his teeth when he stumbled up, one of his ankles sprained.
She decided not to try and heal him, not about to test True Reconstruction on the level zero man. Not if he wasn’t badly injured.
Ilea flew down to him and looked at the metal bars in her hand. She roughed the edges up a bit with the palm of her hand, to make it seem like a more difficult effort. The story wouldn’t be perfect, she knew that much, but with all the strange things happening, she didn’t think it would raise an alarming level of suspicion. Dropping the metal onto the grass, she looked at the wide eyed Torben, gave him a nod, and teleported them both out. Through the sewers and back into the public garage.
“And, time,” Ilea said.
Cless pressed a button on her clock and cheered. “Thirty seven seconds!”
“Torben,” Jennifer said and hugged him, the man hugging her back as he glanced between Ilea and Cless. He looked at his daughter for a few seconds before he took in a sharp breath and refocused.
“What the hell is going on?”
“She’s going to explain everything in a minute,” Ilea said and activated her Teleport, focused on her home back in Elos.
A moment later, they all appeared.
Torben and Jennifer had to steady themselves against the furniture, breathing hard at the sudden teleportation.
“I’ll go deal with the house. Make yourself at home. And don’t go outside. The Swordmouth tigers are still around,” Ilea said.
“I’ll take care of them,” Cless said with a smile and waved.
Ilea teleported straight into the Michaelson’s house, the anchor not one she would keep. Focusing on the framework of the car in the garage, she teleported to the North. “A little gift from Earth. Donation from the Michaelsons, I assume it should provide a house in Ravenhall. You can inform Aki,” Ilea sent.
“What is… this?” the Meadow sent.
“Pollutes the air. Probably unneeded as well with teleportation gates being a thing, but it could be interesting to you,” Ilea sent, and teleported back to the House, using a second anchor she had set up in case the police was fast to react to the breakout.
Summoning a tiny bit of ash, she put some heat into it and floated it over to the couch, which instantly caught fire. Jennifer had agreed to leave most of the furniture behind, to make it a little more plausible that they had managed a breakout and fled, instead of what really happened.
Ilea moved her ash through the ground floor until bright flames spread over the walls. She had to increase the heat to get the floors as well, commending the fire code regulations set in place. Checking through the house as it burned, she found the attic spider and teleported it out into the garden.
“Sorry about your home,” she sent, and did not receive an answer, though she saw the creature scurry away.
Teleporting down into the cellar, Ilea fanned the flames a few times with a tiny bit of heat, watching the surroundings to make sure no heroes would try to rush in and save someone.
A bit of space magic helped collapse a bit of wall here and a bit of ceiling there, the flames spreading quickly.
When the fire brigade arrived, the house was well on its way to collapse, likely too dangerous for any of them to enter.
Two of the firefighters still pushed into the flames with their heavy gear, Ilea keeping a close eye on their health. She was glad to find the house too small for them to get into massive danger. A few teleports made sure they didn’t find her in the cellar either. She helped keep a bit of ceiling steady when they rushed back out, not having found anything.
Safe and sound, Ilea thought with a smile as the second floor collapsed onto the first. She brushed her hands against each other as the flames burned around her. And a few minutes later, she vanished.
“You had her burn down our house?” Torben asked, hand on his brow. He sighed. “We should’ve talked about this.”
“Already burnt down,” Ilea said, summoning a drink for herself and two bottles of ale that she hovered over to the adults.
“Can I have some too?” Cless asked.
“No,” Torben and Jennifer said at the same time.
I’m getting the feeling that her life is going to change somewhat. Though good luck parenting a divination mage who can teleport around the world.
“I think you should probably talk to Aki. I can dump the responsibility of rehousing you on him.” Opening a gate to Iz, Ilea put her head through and quickly asked for a machine that could talk.
Aki obliged.
“Let me know when I should teleport them to Ravenhall,” Ilea said.
“I can do that, don’t worry,” Cless said, some pride in her voice.
“You can?” Ilea asked.
The girl smiled brightly and puffed up her chest.
“Well done,” Ilea said and ruffled her hair, careful not to damage her head.
“New citizens to the Accords,” Aki said and sighed. “Could’ve informed me about this before, Ilea.”
“I improvised,” she said. “They brought gifts though. Cless, contact me when you have a place. I can come dump all of your things by then. Don’t think any electronics will work though, sadly.”
Torben downed his ale and sighed. Compared to the beaming Jennifer, he looked exhausted.
“Just needs time,” Jennifer said with a glance between him and Ilea.
“Good luck in your new life,” Ilea said. “And feel free to stay here as long as you need. I have a bed upstairs too.”
One I can’t really use anymore with how heavy I am.
“Thank you, Ilea,” Jennifer said as she approached and hugged her. “It means everything.” She separated. “You brought back our daughter.”
“I would’ve found a way in time,” Cless said.
Jennifer smiled at Ilea and turned back to her daughter. “Of course you would’ve.”
Ilea watched the scene for a moment before she stepped out into the north. The car was still just standing there, a few of Aki’s machines having joined the Meadow in examining the automobile.
“The substance that powers it is volatile. It would explode on activation,” the Meadow sent.
“From a place with nearly no magic,” Ilea said. “They were safe. At least somewhat.”
“If you consider near zero mana density, it’s possible she is right,” Aki said. “And no civilization would create something this intricate with such a volatile concoction.”
“It could be a weapon of sorts,” the Meadow suggested.
“It’s a car,” Ilea said. “Like a wagon with no animal to pull it. And they went fast too.”
“Steel powered by explosions,” Aki sent.
“Want to recreate it with explosion runes?” Ilea asked.
“Magic, even enchantments, would not be stable enough. One fluctuation and it would be over. No, there are far more effective ways to create something similar. And without legs, it would be difficult to navigate most terrain.”
“We had streets all over. Mostly flat, built for cars specifically,” Ilea sent. “But I can get you more than that. Coffee beans for example.”
“I would be interested in books,” the Meadow sent.
“Manuals and science stuff?” Ilea asked.
“I was more thinking novels. But anything you can get really. I don’t understand the language yet either, but it won’t take long until I can create translations.”
I wish computers worked here, Ilea thought and summoned Jennifer’s laptop. She sucked up all the mana around her until there was little to nothing left. The device still didn’t turn on. Which means my dream of music won’t come true either.
Or wait.
“Do you have recording devices? For music?”
“For sound and images as well,” Aki sent. “If you want to take a Watcher with you. It can store information while in the other realm and then you can return it here where I can look at the data.”
Not exactly copying wikipedia onto a flash drive, but it’s a start. Ilea thought with a smile. “You should also look for information on those who got teleported away seven years ago. Once you can access a computer and through it the internet.”
“You intend to go and find them?” Aki asked.
“You two can think about what we should do. I will as well. A large operation would lead to a lot of people finding out about magic. Which could cause a lot of chaos. There are billions of people on Earth. If that all comes to light, and if they find out I can teleport around and open gates to other realms, there will be problems.
“Familiarize yourself first, and I suggest putting it on a low priority. Earth has managed in the past seven years, and those who have been moved away, they’re either dead or made a new life for themselves. Reuniting them with their loved ones would certainly be nice, but I don’t want to cause chaos for that.”
“We will be careful,” the Meadow sent. “The fissures you could reopen would lead to hundreds if not thousands of other realms however. A consideration for the future.”
“A consideration for the future,” Ilea confirmed with a smile. “But first, I want you to study coffee beans and coffee making. And man, there are so many foods that we can add to Elos.”
“Of course,” the Meadow confirmed, though she didn’t know for sure if it agreed to shut her up or if it really agreed.
“Should I take you there right now?” Ilea asked, looking at Aki.
“I will modify one of the Watchers, give me a few hours,” the machine said.
“Sure,” Ilea answered and stretched. “How busy is my team?”
“Should I relay a message?” Aki asked.
“Would be nice. I have a way back to my realm, and would be happy to show them some of the things there. They probably shouldn’t leave Mark’s apartment, but I can show them some food and movies.”
Aki remained quiet for a moment. “Claire and Trian have replied with generic work related excuses. Kyrian asks if Aliana could join.”
“Sounds good,” Ilea sent.
“And Mark has asked to return soon as well,” Aki said.
“I’ll get him too,” Ilea sent with a smile.
Less than half an hour later, the group appeared in Mark’s apartment, Aliana and Kyrian instructed not to use any of their spells while on Earth.
Ilea made sure the shutters were down before she stored Mark’s sofa and made a new one out of ash.
“This is… strange,” Kyrian said as he looked around. He didn’t wear his armor for once, instead a plain shirt and black pants.
Aliana had a similarly simple getup, the woman walking over to the kitchen before she started looking at the knives and other gadgets.
Ilea turned on the projector and smiled when the others glared at the sudden picture.
“Light magic? I thought there was no magic here,” Kyrian said.
“No, this is technology, not magic. It runs off electricity. Humans here made a bunch of cool shit, even without spells,” she said and gestured for them to sit down.
“I have to check up on a few things in the gym,” Mark said.
Ilea looked at him. “You seem troubled.”
“I…” he started. “I’ve been thinking. With my age. All the things I saw. The things you’ve shown me. I need some time to think it through.” he sighed. “I’ll go on a walk too. Should I get you anything?”
“A random assortment of foods and drinks from any supermarket? Coffee beans too, and grains. Seeds, any kind you can find,” she said.
“So the Accords want to get a piece of Earth,” Mark said and smiled.
“We’ve cultivated that stuff for ages. Let’s see if it grows in Elos,” Ilea said and smiled.
“Worth a shot,” Mark said. “Should I get drinks too?”
Ilea summoned her stack of cash and made it hover over to the man. “Why not.”
“Will take me some time.”
“No worries,” Ilea answered and got the remote. “We’re starting with Lord of the Rings.”
Comments
Pierre Steiner
Do I want this to be a canon release integrated into the universe? Yes, most definitely
G. Harthane
dm me if you want me to link those in a chapter note, prolly more people will see it then. Though I'll have to read them first :P
Glass Glade
Part 2 of the Spider mini fanfic. Contains spoilers for the above chapter. https://new.reddit.com/r/glassglade/comments/y03bca/azarinth_healer_secret_mission_spider_pt_2/
Indy
@Monika Djomi, yes all that and so much more, I tried to encapsulate it all with "actually everything Ilea is and does or in other words her mere existence"
Herald
I'm surprised at how many people are falling for this Internet troll, Tibbish argues against his own points with cherry picked arguments and a limited understanding of pretty much everything. Let them wail on the internet and just mute it. Only way to kill a internet troll is to ignore it. If/when it responds to a comment just don't acknowledge it. Should even make your day brighter knowing you're killing a troll by doing nothing.
Hauke Sattler
@Monika Djomi You have an incredible eloquent and maybe slightly blunt way to say exactly what I thought. Thumbs up.
mike
It's not garbage. Mana is a fictitious entity and has what ever properties the author so desires. Souls exist in the fiction and interact with biology. Its how decapitation can be survived by growing a new a head and brain destruction doesn't result in instant death. You're right about consistency being important but nothing about earth technology not functioning in elos without modification is inconsistent. It's simply a new interaction that we have seen for the first time that has yet to be explained. The idea that electricity in a person is 1:1 to electricity in tech; that if one works the other should too, is absolutely ridiculous. EMP's don't kill people but they sure do kill technology.
Monika Djomi
@tibbish You remind me of Sheldon in BBT. That aside your argument for consistency and logicality and the laws of physics DO. NOT. MAKE. SENSE. 1. ILEA can see behind trough and in all objects in all angles for what is probably several hundred metres. That defies everything we understand about light and vision. FYI she can also see in absolute darkness. 2. Ilea weighs several tons at this point, that defies everything we know about sustainability of living things in a mass to volume ratio. 3. She has regular baths in superheated volcanoes 4. Her surface body temperature can eclipse the surface of a star!! 5. She can reconstitute her entire body from nothing, and reconstitute other objects too. 6. She can survive without eating, sleeping or breathing . 7. Meadow can quite literally dictate with a 4th tier spell what reality is or isn't . 8. There are dragons the size of mountains!!!!!! 9. For fucks sake there are 2 FUCKING STARS INSIDE ELOS' CRUST!!. ACTUAL FUCKING STARS. With all this you draw the line at A LAPTOP NOT COMING ON?! You my dude are unbelievable. hell if the sun is too bright my phone says fuck it and dies in less than 30 mins .
Hauke Sattler
@Indy I think I have to explain more clearly what I meant Case 1 Ilea picks up a stone and let it fall. The stone falls to the ground. => gravity works Ilea doesn't force the stone to fall, gravity does that. Case 2 Ilea picks up the same stone, cast 'fabric altercation' on it and let it "fall". The stone stays suspended in the air. => gravity fails Ilea prevents the stone from falling. Gravity can't do a thing about it. What I meant was, that Elos physics CAN ACT the same as Terran physics. And in most cases they will act in the same way. But Elos physics DON'T HAVE TO ACT the same as Terran physics.
Indy
@Hauke "There is no part that indicates that they HAVE TO WORK different, but they CAN WORK different around mana!!!" actually everything Ilea is and does or in other words her mere existence needs a different physic framework, its so obvious, we dont have do talk about. All your other points are correct.
Hauke Sattler
"The fundamental basic laws of physics" are just a mere suggestion in the presence of mana. There is no part that indicates that they HAVE TO WORK different, but they CAN WORK different around mana!!! There is a big difference between "have to" and "can". The whole existence of magic is a gigantic "handwaving". With both arms and legs involved. While the disablement of electronics is just a small "wiggle with the pinky" compared to that. See: alone the the removal of a sun from a multi sun planetary system would play havoc with orbital mechanics, most likely kicking Elos out of it's Goldilocks zone. And why did the removal of the third sun change the mana distribution on Elos??? => GIGANTIC HANDWAVING NEEDED. But 'Electronics stop working on Elos' => "THAT'S NOT LOGICAL !!1!11" ??? Sorry, but no sorry. When RhaegarRRL writes that 'electronics don't work on Elos' then this is canon PERIOD. No amount of arguing and screaming about the logicality or illogicality will change that.
tibbish
"In every breath" is a meaningless standard. Its not like your avg. person can snap their fingers and make a good magical weapon, or good magical product, or even just OK magic stuff, etc. Most of them are very poor for a reason. Where is there anything in the story that says there are bigger and/or huge numbers of space monsters near Elos' orbit that'd be knocking sats constantly out? Its mentioned off hand that there is stuff out there but that is it. We sure don't see Elos getting constantly attacked by space monsters either. Please quote me where I have demanded anything in that thread. You're reading into it something that isn't there or something. Thread discussion was about what was logical and good not about making demands. edit: Its worth pointing out too that authors are just people like you and me and sometimes they do make booboos with their story. Even the author of this story has said some rather harsh things about their earlier chapters (a bit too harsh IMO). So just because a author says something in a story doesn't mean it actually makes sense or is somehow beyond critique. Even in a good story like this one that can be true. If the fundamental basic laws of physics work different around mana then people would be negatively effected as well though. Saying that "well people are different" is the exact opposite of internally consistent there. Especially if the reason for that difference amounts to "cuz' I said so".
Indy
tibbish: If magic was cheap and accessible enough the standard of living wouldn't be so shit for most in Elos. -> In Elos magic is in every breath, you cant get more accessible. The lack of living standard isnt because of a lack of tech. tibbish: Sure but space is gigantic and with space monsters the size of mountains, or even several mountains, this wouldn't be a concern due to that. At worst you lose a few sats a year you know you have to replace. -> That is just your assumption tibbish: "I don't understand your persistent demand to have high tech on Elos."Because you're misreading me or something. I'm not demanding it. -> demanding it is literal what you are doing mike: "The point is magic works however the hell the author says it does." -> exactly In high mana regions the fundamental basics laws of physic work different, I would argument that not working high Tech is highly internally consistent and everything else would be "garbage like the aforementioned SW movies"
tibbish
Hauke: 1) don't know the exact prices for lots of things in Elos vs Earth, labor costs, or exact conversion rates for money so wiiiiiiild guesses is the best anyone can do but there is obviously all kinds of ways tech could be done cheaper than magic. How is it obvious? If magic was cheap and accessible enough the standard of living wouldn't be so shit for most in Elos. Up until Ilea got strong enough to force some changes, in some but not all places, it was your standard medevial hellhole even with magic. 2) Sure but space is gigantic and with space monsters the size of mountains, or even several mountains, this wouldn't be a concern due to that. At worst you lose a few sats a year you know you have to replace. 3) It is but in many ways its less of a problem than dealing with the troubles of pure mass magic manufacture. "I don't understand your persistent demand to have high tech on Elos." Because you're misreading me or something. I'm not demanding it. Go ahead and quote where I've done so!! I'm saying that it doesn't really make any sense to nix it and is simpler overall to just allow the 2 to coexist. I've said this at least a couple of times now! mike: a logic that is internally consistent within the confines of the story is something that does work and isn't too much to ask for either. Any good author knows that too since it helps to make things believable. Note that I've already said that I don't expect a author to figure out how the physics would all work exactly. That isn't necessary at all. Just leaving it at "somehow they both work but Ilea doesn't know how to make any tech so it doesn't pop up for 99.9999...999% of the story until the end when she gets to Earth" is perfectly fine. "The point is magic works however the hell the author says it does." No no no, that is flat out nonsense. That is how you get garbage like the aforementioned SW movies.
mike
You're trying to insert real world logic into a fantasy story with magic. That never works. It could be something simple like Mana interfering with how electricity moves through wires in non-magic material where as the electricity in a persons body is unaffected because of the unique way mana and the system interacts with their biology. The point is magic works however the hell the author says it does.
Hauke Sattler
@tibbish 1. Please name five things that could be done more cheaply by technology than by magic. 2. Space monsters doesn't have to care about a satellite to accidently knock it out of it's orbit. 3. Starting a mass production of modern technology is a gargantuan task. There are many supply chain problems to solve. I don't understand your persistent demand to have high tech on Elos.
tibbish
Ultimate: it'd do whatever magic couldn't cheaply! In some areas it might not make sense if, for instance, you have a cheap and plentiful source of magic somehow nearby. But just as there are areas on Earth where there are deserts there'll be places where there'll be less magic on Elos and tech can fill that niche. Any Divine monsters in space might not care a bit about mundane satellites. Might as well be rocks to them for all we know. Of course we don't even know if there any near Elos in space either. Tech with pure mundane production methods isn't easy to maintain but you can clearly cheat in all kinds of ways with a little bit of magic in a place like Elos. Just accept it!
What good would tech working even do? There is 0 infrastructure in place to support it. No electricity/outlets, we don’t know whether they have fossil fuels and whether they care to mine it. They have better/safer and more eco friendly alternatives. The mana devices are more suitable to harsher environments. Like look at Earth, we don’t have any decent infrastructure in place in deserts, arctics and other inhospitable places and you guys are debating technology on Elos where a random lightning bolt/gust of wind/wild beast would tear that stuff to shreds. I doubt they can put satellites in orbit either cause of some lurking Divine level monsters in space. Technology is fickle and hard to maintain, just accept it.
tibbish
Hauke: "different reality, different rules" only goes so far though if you're going to start putting people made of different matter into those other realities where the rules are different. Taking the "somehow they're both compatible and tech + magic work" is by far the simplest and most consistent route to take there. Nah it inherently does the opposite. The rich can only buy so much tech much in the way they can only buy so many mansions, Lamborghinis, or yachts, or artisanal bread loafs, etc. Tech opens up new means of production, and new products, that can far outstrip even conspicuous consumption. That + its use of cheap and common mundane materials to achieve something only magic could before is why its so impactful. And why it can change whole societies. Mass production is a game changer. The author doesn't HAVE to write all that stuff at all for the end of this story. Even just hinting at it, by showing tech working in Elos, is fine.
Hauke Sattler
@tibbish I tend to disagree. I did not perceive your 'busting the suspension of disbelief'. I considered "different world, different rules, different things that work or work not" more believable. About: "The one area where tech switches things up is societies. The have-nots in magical worlds are those without access to magic in some form. Tech can change THAT up. " Yes, tech WIDENS the gap between "have-it"s and "have-not"s. Those who have magic are most likely the wealthy and powerful. Those could buy the tech. For the "have-not"s tech is unlikely to be accessible or affordable. Exception is when a third party equip the "have-not"s with stuff to stir up crap for the "have-it"s. Not sure if any author would write something like that when he tries to wrap the story up.
tibbish
Hauke: The inconsistency busts the suspension of disbelief thats why. Yeah its a fictional story but its unrealistic within the confines of the story itself. You'll see similar issues pop up with other fiction. The midichlorians or Jedi Speed in SW movies for instance. They're clearly quick n' dirty solutions to messes that the writers found themselves in, and in theeeeory shouldn't matter because its fiction and aren't we all there for the cool lightsaber fights anyways right? BUT when you bust the audiences' suspension of disbelief it causes big problems and to this day some people still get irritated about that. I don't really buy the "its for plot reasons" explanation either. Ilea clearly wasn't the sort to know how to build a phone charger or any electronics at all really. Most people aren't. And that is fine. The story would've turned out pretty similar anyways. Ultimately tech is no different from a magic wand or a stone axe as far as the story (edit) fights goes: they're all just tools. What really matters is how they're used, what they're used for, and who is doing the using. The one area where tech switches things up is societies. The have-nots in magical worlds are those without access to magic in some form. Tech can change THAT up.
Hauke Sattler
It is somewhat funny. Most readers didn't bat an eye over the existence of the magic in Elos. (Whose physical explanation would require an epic amount of *handwaving*) But as soon as modern technology stops working on Elos, people get their panties in a twist, calling it unrealistic. (Hello???) And imho it maybe not laziness for disabling electronics. It could have plot reasons. Or maybe the author just wants to protect his world from being polluted by modern tech. What would readers demand next? Martians? Nothing is more deadly for a working fantasy world than the introduction of to much sci fi stuff.
tibbish
Bene: for electrical devices it litterally is though. You bringing up symmetry has nothing to do with the discussion though and I have no clue why you think it does. Changing the values for the strong/weak force or for charge have nothing to do with symmetry. Hardening electronics isn't only done through EMI shielding. That is only 1 thing out of several things that are done to harden them. They're actually manufactured on different lithographic processes and designed different too. Its expensive to do it (which is why you don't see it consumer devices) and usually results in devices that either consume more power and/or run at lower clock speeds but its doable. Once properly hardened they're pretty durable to EMI. As I pointed out those spy sats still run just fine as do a whole bunch of comm sats despite being hit by a CME. EMI isn't the impossible barrier to electronics that you're making it out to be. "Just because 5 people on the internet can't think of something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist." Oh come on that is such a absurd response. If you don't know something or can't figure it out don't reply like this. I mean if I replied "someone somewhere else knows better than you nyyyaaahh~~" would that be considered that reasonable? "Also you should rethink your stance of telling people they don't know shit if you only bring up general knowledge." Dude you're the one mixing antimatter and normal matter like it ain't no thing. How is that reasonable? edit: Also I didn't say "you don't know shit". Those are your words. If you want to reinterpret what I say in the worst way possible that is on you!! Hauke: yeah if you wanted to do it really "properly" and make it all make sense having magic and tech work is a no go. But from a story perspective of "somehow this is a thing" letting them both coexist would at least be surface level consistent, and low effort, without delving into recreating physics or arbitrarily saying this or that no longer works because *violent handwaving*.
RuRo
Here's an article basically complaining about the same problem in fiction: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/LaM5aTcXvXzwQSC2Q/universal-fire
Hauke Sattler
@tibbish You are right in your claim that if you change anything in the four fundamental forces of physics, that you basically changing everything. The problem is that no matter how you tinker with gravity, electromagnetism, weak interaction, strong interaction and maybe even the Higgs interaction you won't be able to replicate the effects of magics we already saw in 'Azarinth Healer'. These effects break to many fundamental rules of out traditional physics. In order to explain magic we have to assume the existence of additional fundamental forces. Forces we can't know, explain or understand because they don't exist in our reality. (Hey we barely understand the relationships between out four KNOWN fundamental forces) Now assuming that there are additional forces at play in Elos. These could cause anomalies in the properties of otherwise known materials. Maybe METALLIC copper is a crappy electric conductor in Elos, because the Hatschibu field oscillations (beyond a critical mana density) are on a resonant frequency of the copper 3d10 orbitals. Deforming the copper's native crystal structure from a cubic face-centered one to a cubic body-centered one, thus hindering the flow of electrons. It is like the many anomalies of water. If you don't have the knowledge of the three-dimensional structure of water you can't explain density anomaly of ice or the way to high boiling temperature for it's low molecular mass.
Bene
Electricity isn't the flow of electrons. The flow of electrons is a result of the electric field guided in copper. If you have a material with free cations, anions anything that carries a charge it moves in an electrical field. I brought up the symmetry because you can't distinguish them from normal interaction by casual inspection. There are enough theories that work most of the time, but fall apart around the edges. The EMI shielding is done around the components and high powered particles will still penetrate your shielding and flip a bit. The electronic devices just compensate for it. Therecould easily be a reason why humans survive but electronic devices die. Just because 5 people on the internet can't think of something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The fundamental idea of mana being controlled by willpower or sentient is completely anathema to or understanding of energy. That it seemingly generates out of nowhere and is so versatile and moldable is so far off anything in our world. Also you should rethink your stance of telling people they don't know shit if you only bring up general knowledge. Anybody that has so much as walked by a physics classroom knows that much general knowledge.
tibbish
Alex: the author was arbitrarily picking and choosing what bits of real physics to allow there. Yeah its a story but it still bugs me when they do this. Hauke: You're focusing too much on the materials (ie. silicon). Semiconductor bandgaps arise out of the fundamental physics (this why I keep bringing up charge and the strong/weak force) of the matter. You can't change the bandgap of silicon, aluminum, or copper without also changing how ALL matter's fundamental physics work. So IOW how proteins are going to work or how gas exchange happens in the lungs too. Its an all or nothing type deal, you don't get to pick and choose arbitrarily, reality doesn't work that way. The in story, and in thread, context was somehow that ALL electricity was being nullified due to mana concentration. So not just a change in conduction, its flat out gone. If its flat out gone that is a show stopper too. Bene: but its not EMI that is the issue in story or for that matter in other stories of this type. Also you can harden electronics against EMI. Consumer stuff will easily stop working in a high EMI environment but the milspec stuff is quite resistant. Satellites in space for instance are constantly bathed in high EMI and it takes something like a CME to kill them. Sometimes not even then. There was a CME back in Feb of this year that killed 40 of Elon's new satellites but plenty of others, including all those military spy sats, are fine. Also LOL you absolutely need electrons to have electricity. Electricity is litterally just a flow of electrons. "Everything the opposite" means you'd be using positrons instead of electrons to fulfill the same role. That is also with anti-matter instead of normal matter. If you want to add anti-matter somehow to the discussion then I think your understanding of this subject isn't so good. Like what do you think would happen if a person made of normal matter came into contact with a world made of anti-matter when going through a portal? It'd be instadeath for them and a apocalypse for the world most likely.
Bene
In none of the Maxwell equation the type of charge is specified. You could build the same universe, but with everything opposite.
Hauke Sattler
I beg to differ, you NEED electrons to have electricity. But I'm guessing you made a typo. Btw. you also need electrons to have atoms! You need atoms to have molecules!! You need molecules to have an effing body!!! No electrons means now solid matter, except you replace the electrons with muons but then your matter has a mean lifetime of 2.2 microseconds.
Bene
First of all. You don't need to change basic physical laws to make electronic devices not work. For example a high background radiation of that sun or high Electromagnetic interference due to constant massive lightning storms. Higher magnetic field fluctuation of the planet inducing currents in the circuit. Can all be reasons your phone dies within minutes. A heater and generator would probably work if they are basic enough. You also don't need electrons to have electricity.
Hauke Sattler
1a. A slight change in the bandgap of silicon and 99% of all transistor and diodes won't work as intended anymore. 1b. A change in conductivity of copper and aluminum metal would mess all kind of circuit parameters. Your mitochondria and your body don't use semiconductors or metal wires. (Okay if you are depending on a pacemaker you are screwed). I admit, silicon is probably an essential element (yet to be proven), but the few biological functions is has don't depend on it's bandgap properties. 2. Another possibility is that there are several different effects that are canceling each other in biological beings but not in artificial things. So, before you can argue how any physical change through magic would kill humans, you would have to explain HOW magic changes WHICH physical laws and properties. And that won't be possible as long as we have no magic. It's like discussing semiconductors and electronic circuits without knowing anything about electricity.
Alex L
Its not like tech and magic don’t exist, we’ve seen it with the magitech rifles the Courts had. I think it’s more that there are a whole bunch of matter-mana laws of physics that just don’t apply in (practically) no-mana zones like earth, and any tech that is delicate or relies on a precise voltage/signal is going to break. With enough time and effort though, you could probly make elos(or mana)-safe tech. At least, that’s my headcanon. Edit: upon review, if it messes w/electricity and not something like how much it takes for something to explode, then Tibbish is right it would probly kill earthling humans
tibbish
Ooooor you could just allow the tech and magic to exist and not arbitrarily nix one of them? Particularly if your idea of getting rid of the tech does so in a way that, if you have a basic understanding of at least a few bits of physics, would clearly kill everyone?
Kex Slash
I mean, what are you expecting exactly? An explanation from the science side of it falls apart for the reason you've already stated. So that cannot be done. Using magic as an excuse is near-enough just as problematic because it is easy to get it labelled as "lazy writing" yet we can all imagine how much a civilization could like theirs could benefit from our technology.
tibbish
Any fundamental change to an electronic field (more like an absence of it was what was being talked about, not a change from .1mv to .01mv but whatever) that would brick tech that fundamentally would also "brick" your mitochondria though. They're tiny structures made of floppy protein instead of silicon and copper but the fundamentals will always still apply. And yeah its a fictional story but it always bugs me how authors hand wave away the tech because they just don't want it there.
Hauke Sattler
@tibbish Sorry, accidently send the reply before I was finished typing.
tibbish
But how does that matter to the topic? The mitochondria could be infinitely tolerant of any electric field (lol they're not) and it wouldn't matter to the discussion if somehow electrical fields aren't able to exist because of mana. If your mitochondria can't function (yes producing electricity is part of their function) then you die.
Hauke Sattler
Your mitochondria are more or less tolerant to electrical field. Also most electronic use semiconductors. Slight changes to the properties of semiconductors will brick most electronics. Also we are talking about magic here. It seems to influence all kinds of physical properties and breaks many fundamental rules. (Speed of light, Conservation of mass, Conservation of energy etc.)
tibbish
You have electricity going on in your mitochondria too (yup you do!) so they'd stop working as well though if that was what mana did to it. If matter is unable to hold a charge that means either the strong or weak (or both) nuclear forces are also being altered which is a huge no no and would lead to insta-death. The ability for matter to hold a charge and exist as we know it is dictated by those 2 forces. The closest thing that would behave that way in our reality is stuff like neutrinos and no one knows what they really are since they basically don't interact with normal matter. They pretty much pass through everything (because they hold no charge and can't ever do so).
Paladin
From what I understand is that once mana is dense enough then it will start to change and modify the existing energy such as electricity making it incompatible with the existing devices
tibbish
Realistically (lol i know) if humans can exist there and matter pretty much behaves as it does here then tech should work just fine. Fundamentally if the realities differ too much for tech to work it means people couldn't survive there at all. They'd die instantly the second they came through the portal and then disintegrate into degenerate matter or radiation (could be gamma ray or just heat and light) of some sort. If that sounds crazy then think how the mitochondria in your cells work. Or gas exchange happens in your lungs. Or how your DNA replicates. Its all based on the fundamental properties of matter, at a molecular or atomic level, the same as tech. There was a fascinating article on the Many Worlds Interpretation and one of the take aways was that there could indeed be a (near) infinite versions of our reality but the fundamental rules of reality would have to be the same across all of them. So realities where Harry Potter is real or whatever are flat out not happening since the fundamentals of reality would have to be so different that people (and matter, stars might not even be able to form for instance) as we know them couldn't exist there.
Renniuq
No, no, she needs to find a live TV broadcast on some street, stand on the opposite side of the street just staring into the camera, until a bus passes in front of her and teleport away just to mess with people! The best use of great magical might.
Simons Edgar
I didn't realize that electronics didn't work in Elos, I just thought ilea was teleported without them. Kinda lame, honestly, I really like magictech and if electronics work you could be looking at shadowrunners's esque fantasy world.
Pierre Steiner
To illustrate my, and others, points on the last few chapters : "Yes. Now for this escape to look remotely reasonable, I need you to go to the toilet,” Ilea said. He got up and called out to one of the few staff. Ilea waited, keeping an eye on the security guards" See right there you could add a " Who are you, how do I know I can trust you?" sorta line, with an answer from Illea and then only get to the escape. Just lends some credibility to the different actions imo
DrNutella
Can someone remind me what the status of the book was? I have been itching to reread the story for a while now, but i was holding of because he was going to publish for real. Do we know roughly when it's coming out? And was it also coming out as an audiobook? I would love an audiobook of AH.
Hauke Sattler
Just imagine Ilea photobombs some live tv.
Xana
I wanna see her just stroll into the UN use magic and give a impromptu lecture on mana no one asked for on live TV so that she can get some cults on earth she can be the goddess of ash and magic no one knew what to do with
Tequila Worm
Tyfc
Arexio R.
ahaha LotR? thatll def take a while
