Patreon Ramble #11 - The Pursuit of Imperfection

Evan Snyder

After making a few large budget films with actors and crews, Pedro Costa decided to start making films with no crew and nonprofessional actors, despite having the funding for those things, because he realized it was better that way. There's a great interview with him about it on Criterion Channel.

Zack Augustus

I completely agree on your point about the imperfect ugly thing being the best version of yourself. There is also an authentic and positive energy hard to quantify that a one-take provides, this is why we love LIVE music :)

This video alone is worth many more times the 1$ I spend to be able to view it.

Alex Crowley

My favorite ramble so far

ChronoFinale

Killing the perfectionist inside of you is so important for many pursuits, if not all of them! In my work I suffer from that attitude. I also always wanted to make a video and put it on YouTube. What stopped me was myself saying I didn’t have the right gear. I stopped making excuses and just improv’d me putting together a desk. It was a lot more fun than it sounds.

Joel Haver

Absolutely! Chasing the moments that even you the filmmaker didn't expect is key. If your film didn't surprise you, it's far less likely to surprise others. And like Cameron said, no need to feel bad at all! I'm happy you're here now and grateful for the support.

Joel Haver

Thanks for the recommendation! Will add it to my list! And absolutely, foreign film across the board is many steps ahead of American films in that regard.

Joel Haver

I personally think ultimate control is the death of genuineness. I don't think the two can truly coexist. In life we don't have ultimate control and our work should be a reflection of life, the second we plan and control every aspect of our work it loses that truth. That's why everything I do is improvised, I don't want to know what I'm making going into it, just like how the best days of my life are the ones where I could've never predicted what would happen. Uncertainty is the best friend of the genuine.

Don't feel bad. You're def. not alone. YT algo picked up a few of his animated shorts and everyone dug into his back catalogue sparking a wildfire! I wish I'd found him earlier too, but I'm just excited to help support the future. cheers!

I feel like Joel is Jay Bauman from an alternate reality where making "Feeding Frenzy" didn't crush his soul.

Black Seranna

New subscriber here. I like to support people who I think have a chance to really make great art, and I feel bad that I am late to the game, here. But then again, I didn't hear about you through word of mouth, it was the YouTube algorithm that showed me your films. I love the quirky humor and the naturalness you bring to cinema. My favorite films of all time have spontaneous moments in them, and I wouldn't change it for the world. I see what you see, that today's big film makers think that to make a good movie, you need a big budget. But really, you just need to tell a story, one that makes people laugh, or scares them, or bounces their idea of what they think they knew versus what they really know. But to do it all in a real and genuine way, without over explaining (this is hard, very hard). Even a science fiction movie needs realness, and that is what film makers forget when they edit out all the imperfections or non-scripted reactions.

I like French movies for this exact reason: most often than not, the focus is on depicting the human experience and exploration of emotions rather than big budget super technical shots. I must have watched l'Auberge Espagnole a thousand times now ahha

Love you too.

Austin Milt

Not intending to take away from the pursuit of genuineness, as I think that's an even better goal. You just got me thinking about it.

Austin Milt

The imperfection in your content is mostly genuine, and so it heightens the comedic effect. However, one could argue that the ultimate version of your style is to be perfect at appearing genuinely imperfect. Then you have ultimate control over your style. The content would likely become soulless for you, but (one could imagine) it would have the biggest positive effect on your audience.

Austin Milt

What about the Pursuit of Imperfection as the perfection of your style rather than embracing imperfection in the pursuit of genuineness? Comedy has the unique trait of (sometimes) being better the "worse" it appears. I immediately think of SNL skits where it appears that the performers are so tickled that they break character. I'm sure some, maybe most, of that is genuine, but it often appears forced. Why force it? Because breaking character is funny. But appearing to break character intentionally is cringe.

Matt Shaver

Thanks for the advice Joel. This definitely applies to comedy as well. There's something called "the rule of 9" that I've been trying to take to heart - it says that for every 10 jokes you write, 9 will be bad. Obviously you're striving for all 10 to be good, but you shouldn't be disappointed if only 1 of them is. In Judd Apatow's Masterclass he talked about how Mike Binder told him "the first screenplay I sold was my 10th" - not because he was being a perfectionist but because it took him that many tries. I've been trying to put out at least 1 new video every week on my YouTube, but I don't feel like many of them are even things that I'm proud of, so I'm struggling to balance consistency and quality. Maybe I should sacrifice some consistency for making sure they're videos I would feel proud to show people. In hindsight were you proud of all the videos you've released over the years?

I love the haze further down the tracks! I know you didn't physically add it but it's still so cool to look at. I appreciate the whole rebuttal on the nitpicking - it always irks me when people associate "cinema" with "sins" lol. That Teddy Roosevelt quote rings truer every day.

Joel Haver

Absolutely! I have some cousins in Colorado and will most certainly meander my way out there eventually. Looking forward to those landscapes :)

Joel Haver

Hey Corey! Happy the advice could translate to your essays. I’m very excited for the van life, maybe we’ll cross paths in a Walmart parking lot or Planet Fitness shower hahah. Thanks for the support❤️

Joel Haver

Fail faster is brilliant advice❤️

K4g4m1

I will take this knowledge you are imparting on me and I will apply it to the art of skateboarding.

Really appreciate bringing up the topic of imperfection so much. I think it applies to anything we put effort into doing. It certainly applies to artistic work but this advice is extremely important to my desk job projects too where I'm trying to write the "perfect" report. But it also is important to address with our relationships and our less tangible passions. Striving to have perfection in any of these areas leads to self inflicted harm because it's impossible to reach it. Thank you for sharing your viewpoint and I hope to implement your wisdom into my own life.

Alex Ezorsky

You would make one hell of a film professor 😜

Hey Joel, I'm not a filmmaker, but I am an essayist. I think a lot of the things you described here resonated with me in the sense that I should stop being so critical of my own work, each one of my works has value. Instead of focusing on what's wrong, I'm going to spend more time focusing on what's right. Also, as a person also trying to get a van, I'm extremely proud to support someone trying to live a life like me; I know I would want someone else to do the same. Keep up the incredible work on your films, I look forward to them.

Very good advice. The idea does translate well to many things as well. If you are the kind of person who would rather see the flaws in your past work so that you can improve you should still strive to fail faster.

Joel Haver

Get that sucker done and out! That way you’ll have a blank slate and be free to make the next one. I’m glad I wasn’t hit by a train though it would’ve looked so sick on camera.

Kyle A. Ouellette

Fuckin dope dude <3 big love

Flynn Reardon

I really needed to hear the part you said about “Killing the perfectionist” I worked on a short film in October and still haven’t released it because I felt it was lacking but I know if I don’t just finish it up and release it that I never will. Also very glad no train interrupted you.

Two thumbs up and an affirmative nod, my dude!

This is the second time I've gotten the message "Quantity, over Quality" today in regards to making art. Thank you teacher

Wow, what a pretty shot!

Joel Haver

Amen to that! In hindsight we love imperfection yet when we create we treat it as an enemy. It's all about closing that gap!

Joel Haver

beep beep beep

boop boop boop

This is a great ramble. As a music maker i have thought about this often. Its often hard for me to finish tracks because i get downbeat about how they sound and its because like many artists im seeking perfect versions for some reason. Whenever i listen back to old demos ive done from years back i find i love the energy thats in them. The fact theyre not perfect is whats great about them

Gregory Austin McConnell

Hit me up if your travels take you around Missouri! Drive safe.

CE3DK

"You're the only one stopping you from making a movie..." 100% agree, Joel!

The Chad

Damn bro this could be a TED Talk. Good stuff!

Andy Wolf

JOEL, YOU'RE TEARING ME APART! Oh, Hi, Mark!

Joel Haver

For sure, I'll find ways to keep having them appear. I'm fortunate to have lots of friends, lots of places, I'm excited to get some fresh faces in more videos as well :)

Joel Haver

Husbands feels like Cassavetes at his most "not giving a fuck what people think" hahah. It's so challenging and stretched out and the characters are so utterly detestable at times. I have to give it another watch sometime to form a more solid opinion.

Struggling with this from time to time. I always appreciate having the reminder that perfection is insanely overrated

Excited for you to go out and travel, but I’ll miss seeing your friends in your videos! I hope they can still participate some!

Alkivo

I really loved the ramble about imperfections, keep up the great work!

Erik Bourre

love you too buddy!

Mr_PumpkiN

We all love you too ❤️

My favorite Cassavetes film is probably Husbands. It’s such a beautiful film about 3 friends dealing with the death of a friend. Plus, I love watching Cassavetes, Falk and Gazzara act together. They look like they had a blast making it. Easily 3 of the coolest people ever imo