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🕑 Added 2021-01-31 04:07:02 +0000 UTC

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Chloë Salzenberg

Ralph, you got some splainin to do. "The woke movement" <- red flag; the only people who think there is such a thing are people who resist or fear consequences for being jerks.

Daniel Blom Paulsen

Ralph, I did read your whole post, and I am not trying to play word games, I promise. What prompted my response was the fact that, while you initially agreed that men need to be able to talk about their feelings, you jumped from that to talking about whiny men in a way that, to me, read as though you were still conflating the two. (Also, when you say "women by and large", I find it hard not to read it as "the majority of women".) But if I have misrepresented anything in your post, that's my bad. As for toxic masculinity, it does seem like you don't understand what it is; it is not ill-defined, and it certainly isn't some catch-all term for behavior by men deemed against the zeitgeist. In short, it refers to certain traditional ideas about masculinity that can be harmful and/or unhealthy, like for instance the idea that men shouldn't express emotions. It seems like you're dismissing it out of hand based on some preconceived notions.

Ralph Little

dragonkittyrawr, noone knows what "toxic masculinity" is because it is such an ill-defined term. It is generally used to cover all behaviour my men that is societally determined to be against the norms of the zeitgeist. There is certainly some reprehensible behaviour that some men engage in. And some of it might be misdirected competitive, status-oriented behaviour. However, like many terms emerging from the woke movement, it is a fairly useless dog whistle devoid of useful meaning.

Ralph Little

Daniel, I'm not going to play word games with you. I don't think that I stated that talking about your feelings was "whiny". If you care to read the rest of my post you will realise that my point was that there is a middle ground between over sharing and being stoic to the point of detrimental. Also clearly when I talk about "women by and large" I am not talking about all women or even the vast majority of women. Both women and men are certainly diverse but we are far more alike than we are different.

Tom kennedy

"Embrade"??

dragonkittyrawr

I'm sorry Ralph but Cathal is right, not Thisguy, and you don't actually understand what toxic masculinity is.

Daniel Blom Paulsen

Ralph, talking about your feelings as a man doesn't make you "whiny" - that's exactly the kind of toxic ideas we need to leave behind as a society. And can we please not make sweeping statements about what "women" are attracted to? It maintains the narrative of "women" being some singular hive mind rather than a massively diverse group of individuals with their own preferences. Jaron, I don't see how these are mutually exclusive? "A Friendly Ear" basically confirms that both are the case: Clinton is unsure because he's never been attracted to a guy before (or dated anyone, for that matter), and he also admits to feeling a bit of anxiety at the idea of dating a guy despite not feeling weird about "other queer dudes", which I read as him confirming that it's at least partly due to some internalized homophobia. Like Willow says, it's a lot.

Daniel Burnett

yeah, they can both be awkward and she can be the part of the triad that makes the decisions and thinks shit through

Ohh Crap Guy

Calling /u/uwubot

Mark

Has she been taking lessons from Hanners? https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1708

Mark

Cwillokoiot.

OldGoat

I think you're right.

Vic or Vyxter

Clinton and Elliot are going to kiss?!?! SQUEEEEEE!!!

Michele Williams

Yes! It has been too long since we've had a good Claire squee

Jim Feldman

I'm sure it's Welsh for something as are other strings of consonants with not enough vowels

Nash Wolfe

Cwelliowt is Welsh for "fan service."

OldGoat

Seriously. Jeph's explored most other permutations. Cwelliowt would be a good place to start with Poly.

Jaron Mortimer

Daniel - I don't actually think so, and I think Willow is off the mark here. What Clinton is grappling with is just the fact that he's probably Bi. Til this bit with Elliot happened, he was never presented as anything other than straight, and it's easy to extrapolate that until Elliot came along, Clinton WAS straight, or at least held no romantic feelings for any other men. This is so much more about him discovering something new about himself and so much less about "internalized homophobia"

Captain Button

Especially when they go ultrasonic and get all the dogs barking.

Ralph Little

I think Thisguy is probably right. Reading the conversation too literally I think. I think it is ironic how stereotypically some people view masculinity though. It's neither toxic nor benign. However, some people are jerks whether they are masculine or feminine and that's just how things are. What I will say though is that regardless of what some people think about men talking through their feelings (and clearly there is some room for positive movement there), women by and large are turned off by whiny men and dig confidence and quiet inner strength. There is an ideal middle ground that I hope I try to achieve in myself but what a big subject that is and something that we couldn't talk out in this forum.

Shane Wegner

Mix in Elliot and now it's, um, Cwelliowt.

OldGoat

I'm still shipping Clinton and Willow. Clillow? Wilton?

Mattezhion Zane Corgan Campbell

Can confirm. As an oldern brother, my heart doesn't beat. It chants "stop hitting yourself!"

Daniel Blom Paulsen

Cathal nailed it; toxic masculinity isn't males being toxic (though it can often take that form), it's the toxic aspects of conservative ideas about masculinity, e.g. being macho, not showing emotions, not being or even being seen as gay, etc. What Clinton is experiencing is clearly remnants of internalized toxic masculinity, in this case specifically homophobia.

Matt Grayson

Another word invented by Shakespeare, but deleted from the third draft of Troilus and Cressida. It means hugging a belt sander.

Michael Voorhis

I read right over that without seeing it... I never notice the misspellings..

Mark

It's OK, Willow. Sisterly squeals of glee are particularly annoying.

Peter Threadgill

embrade?

Huw Morgan

Willow Dragonfang is really adorable.

Cathal Mc Ginley

I think it might be about internalized homophobia, judging from the conversation in comic 4449. Clinton is cool with "other queer dudes" (side note, that line made me so happy), but when faced with the prospect of actual romance, hand-holding and kissing with a man - and the idea of being visibly "out" if he were to date Elliot - then he's hit with all of the societal expectation that men should be straight, act a certain way, not show vulnerability, not express emotions openly... It's not that Clinton is being "toxic" at the moment, it's that the socialization of men and society's conception of what masculinity is in his environment is holding him back.

Thisguy

TBH, there are a lot of girls in this comic who are into guy on guy. And Hanna was getting involved in guys she doesn’t know LOOOOONG before Brun.

Thisguy

I think that’s the joke. Neither Clinton nor Elliot have what anyone would call toxic masculinity. But Willow, who has only just met them, does not know that. Nor does she know that Clinton’s sister is trans, so the socially conservative comment is kinda funny.

Ralph Little

Not really getting who is supposedly toxically masculine in this story, unless lack of confidence or shyness is the new toxic.

Milayna

Willow is kinda a weirdo huh. Seems nice enough though a bit suspicious to be getting so involved in someone she doesn't even know. Of course that's how my favorite Brun got in soooo...give her a chance!

Grace Kieser

It's not her squeeing that's the issue, it's that it's his sister doing it! Siblings are always more annoying about things, no matter what's happening

ducksauz

Please make this canon.

Andrew Mitchell

For sure!

Captain Button

That's Iris's job, she is a PureGuardBot.

Lightsabr2

Willow def writes fanfics.

Bagge

Willow's expression of being a pure romantic in the first panel is wonderful

Dylan T

Willow is pure and must be protected

David Durant

What about the time she was definitely-not-judging when Martin had a one night stand? (I spent 30 mins looking for the strip number and failed - please put me out of my misery).

Hugh Eckert

The best kind of hardware crash.

Jaron Mortimer

I would ask Jeph politely if we could have a comic with Willow, Faye, Marigold, May, and Renee in it, but I'm pretty sure the sheer boob tonnage would tip my monitor over.